Help on understanding time signatures.

[Deric]

@Victor (only!);

Names that make sense make a lot more sense

I can see you have many problems.

I will try and help.

Put it this way, we don't use words like 'Brad', 'Chuck', 'Junior', or 'Rocky' as people's names as we know they are variously nouns and adjectives (don't worry about it) but we learn them just to please, and "get along with you folks" (which we don't use either), it just helps us all help, and understand, each other.

OK, the post you refer to goes like this:

As you know a Cricket has six legs, so a semi-Cricket has three legs: a semi-cricket-triplet as we call it actually.

Now, (keeping up?) it just so happens that the game of cricket uses three stumps at each end of the 'runway' (as we call it) making six in total, so here again, we see that the semi-cricket is three stumps, which we also call a semi-cricket-triplet.

The confusing thing here is that we (us over here) often get legless AFTER we get stumped. Whereas you'd think it should be the other way around wouldn't you? (don't worry about it).

Either way - whether it's legs (off or otherwise) or just stumps (always off) there are always six in total in the above two examples and two semi-cricket-triplets always add up to a whole one, which is six.

Does that help?

If not, don't worry about it.

Deric.

Ps. Maybe it's a cultural difference thing (I don't know) but, personally, I find it much easier, not to mention quicker, to write and/or say 'hemi-semi-demi-quaver' than '64th'.

[VicDiesel]

personally, I find it much easier, not to mention quicker, to write and/or say 'hemi-semi-demi-quaver' than '64th'.

Up till that point I actually believed you.

Victor

Not!!!

[No name]

So, to clarify for my self, when dealing with triplet crochets, each crochet will amount to 1/6 of a semibreve, correct?

1/ I refuse to learn those silly names. Names that make sense make a lot more sense to me.

2/ They're triplets; why the bloody so-and-so are you talking about 1/6? A note in a triplet has one-third the lenght of someting else. The rule is: if you have something, say a quarter note, that is normally divided into 2 something elses, here eighth notes, then now it's divided in three things that get the same name as the elses, but are just a tad shorter.

So an eight-note triplet has three notes that are notated as eighth notes (or "semi-crickets" as you Brits call them), and together make up one quarter note.

Same for three sixteenth triplets making up one eighth note.

Victor.

It's simply a note that..like when a semibreve (whole note) is divided into two, it becomes two minims (half notes). If i'm clear on this, a triplet is simply a note divided into 3, so any one note in a triplet makes up 1/3 of the full triplet. I don't want to get into detail because i'm tired and I just got home from work, but i'm just SIMPLY asking for a little confirmation. That was all, but I think you mistook me on the 1/6 thing. I was refering to direc's post about triplets.

No need to be impatient about it.

[Sascha Franck]

Btw, one should possibly mention that in scores, triplets have a little "3" on top of a group of three of them, so you can distinguish them from binary note values.

And well, Victor was spot on. Triplets are notes dividing the next larger note length value in three instead of in just two. That's all there is about them, really.

[No name]

3. Triplet crotchets have a duration of 1/6 of a semibreve - per crotchet, therefore if a bar length could accommodate one semibreve you 'could' replace this one semibreve with two crotchet triplets - i.e. There would be two 'sets'(?) of triplet crotchets in one bar.

This is what I meant, the way he explained it just made sense to me. I understand, but I think when I mentioned 1/6, it threw folks off of what I meant.

I understand that triplets are, IN A WAY, just like a note divided into two, only the triplets are divided into three, but are still played within the same time. He says that "if a bar could accomodate one semibreve you 'could' replace this one semibreve with two crotchet triplets - i.e. There would be two 'sets'(?) of triplet crotchets in one bar."

It's just the way I read it, and I typed why it made sense to me.

Anyways, all that matters is that i've finally understood it, it really is a headache tryna wrap my head around so much at once. In order to really understand one concept clearly, you have to undestand others as well, and this catch 22 is a bit much if there are a few things that are no so clear.

But yea, I understand now, so thanks!

[Deric]

I've been reading this 'ere book (Harmony and Theory - A Comprehensive Source For All Musicians) since the weekend and have now got to a section called 'Blues Rhythm'. Given that much of this thread concerned a discussion on 'Swing' it seemed logical to ask it in this thread (it's been difficult to follow it this evening as the tonight's KVR Olympics have been entertaining for all... and who says forums are boring!?).

Anyway... I'll quote the book (P72) and then ask:

"The eight-note triplet shuffle "shuffle" is created by combining the first two notes of an eight-note triplet into a single, longer note and leaving the third note short..."

It then shows a sequence on a staff (going left to right):

eighth-note-triplet, triplet with first two quavers tied, a crotchet and a quaver (with a line with a three over them) "OR" an eighth-note triplet with a rest in place of the middle quaver.

I am happy with this the above.

1. It then shows "chart symbol interpretation" as two 'beamed' quavers with an equals sign and then a crotchet and a quaver.

What is this? Is it just some way of writing it and not to be taken literally? If so, why not just write a beamed quaver-triplet before the equals sign as clearly two quavers do not equal a crotchet and a quaver...?

2. It then says that when the shuffle feel is applied to jazz it is called 'swing'. So are shuffle and swing the same?

The Benny Goodman track I listened to the other day (Toxicator's post) had a bass drum 'feel' that I would now say is a crotchet followed by a quaver...

I guess with all the fun this might not get an answer for a while!

[JumpingJackFlash]

1. It then shows "chart symbol interpretation" as two 'beamed' quavers with an equals sign and then a crotchet and a quaver.

What is this? Is it just some way of writing it and not to be taken literally? If so, why not just write a beamed quaver-triplet before the equals sign as clearly two quavers do not equal a crotchet and a quaver...?

Do the crotchet and quaver have a little '3' above them (indicating triplets)? If so, this would be the same as quaver triplets with the first 2 notes tied together.

This basically means, whenever you encounter 2 consecutive quavers, you 'swing' them by playing them (in this case) as quaver triplets with the first 2 notes tied together. - It's ease of notation really, makes it all look simpler and easier to understand.

2. It then says that when the shuffle feel is applied to jazz it is called 'swing'. So are shuffle and swing the same?

Well, some people clearly use the terms 'shuffle' and 'swing' interchangeably. They are certainly very similar. I'm no expert in this area, but if there is a difference, I guess 'swing' seems to be slightly less specifically defined than 'shuffle' (which is what I said above, where 2 consecutive quavers are played as triplets with the first 2 notes tied together). 'Swing' is perhaps more loose, with the player feeling and interpreting the music.

I think the musical term 'shuffle' came from dance and the type of steps used in 'shuffle' dances. The results are always going to be pretty similar, I don't think its really a major point to worry about.

[Deric]

Do the crotchet and quaver have a little '3' above them (indicating triplets)?

They do indeed!

This basically means, whenever you encounter 2 consecutive quavers, you 'swing' them by playing them (in this case) as quaver triplets with the first 2 notes tied together. - It's ease of notation really, makes it all look simpler and easier to understand.

Thank you, this makes total sense now.

JumpingJackFlash thank you for taking the time to provide a clear and considered response. It has been a great help in allowing me to obtain a fuller understanding before progressing further.

Cheers!
Deric.

[me109]

Probably the simplest explanation is that the top number indicates the number of beats in a measure and the bottom number tells you what kind of note gets one beat. (ie: 3/8 = 3 beats to the measure and an eighth note gets one beat.