Reaper is not an ugly duckling anymore !

[Mutant]

No... Younsoft is the winner!

Never !
What I don't like in your younsoft screenshot is:
Colors
Buttons too round and assymetrical.
Fader handle too round and not "fadery" enough.

[John Vulich]

Ding ding dong !
We have a winner !



http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11359

Yeah, that's more like it. It's a bit like Samplitude, which probably has my favorite DAW GUI.

[aMUSEd]

Could do with better toolbar icons though - they look a bit handdrawn. Maybe would be nicer if the toolbar (and maybe also track ones but not the sliders or transport) icons were taken from WhiteTie's icon set?

[aMUSEd]

No just tried it - works best with WhiteTies Toolbar icons and Younsofts track icons but keeping the transport and colours the same.

[aMUSEd]

Sort of like this -



Only I'd also like to steal the Reaper icon from the transport_bg of the Osiris theme but unfortunately the png has been flattened.

[alex zonder]

Another REAPER mixer view...




Where are those innocent Windows 95 looks gone? Is nothing sacred anymore? It's a shame...

[brok landers]

yea brok, thanks for elaborating even further - and see what you get: a great post

well, if it's only that ... .................................

Now I see and understand what improvements you'd like to see, and above all for what reasons/purposes. Now I can fully agree that "dragable editability of the event list editor" would be a great feature to add; let's hope Justin will read your post and agree.

yes, like i said, one should never loose hope ...

BTW when I mentioned 'a language problem' I was not focusing on your use of English of course but on my limitations in understanding some its more technical terms

no worries, i didn't take it as that at all ...
but _i_ meant it ...
my english lacks deeply, that's why simple explanations i do end up in very long posts always ...
native english speakers would've explained the same in a post of half lenght ...

And thanks for explaining 'global track delay'. Sure I know the problem. It exists for MIDI as for audio. I solve it in a simple but so far effective manner, after I got all parts (of a drum sequence for instance) on the tracks. I radically zoom in on the tracks and simply use the possibility to minimally relocate the MIDI or audio items... at a minimal distance... be it ahead or after the part I choose to lock where it is, the bass drum for example.

yes, that's a common way of doing that, i did it the same way on various other hosts.
after those times i then used to use a sample delay plugin when availlable, but, hand to heart:
wouldn't it be easier, and before all, way more confident/reliable to have a dragable numeric-value-box right in the "track inspector", as all you'd have to do for checking if the track is delayed, is to click on the track and look at the number, which then is other than zero?
more benefits from this:

1. you could listen to the loop, while dragging the valuefield, finding the position way more comftable

2. when beginning a track, i often do 4-8 bars drums/song. then i'd like to check if the drumsounds fit in general, or if i really have to choose different sounds, as i eventually would play and arrange them way differently than with the sounds i had choosen before.
that's why i don't want to do that "compatibility check" with trying out the trackdelay _after_ arranging ...

3. when using the track delay, the position _visually_ stays on the snapped position, making it easier to identify if you really moved the part, or if it's just the delay, that you've choosen for groove/soundmatching reasons ...
too fast i re-moved the bd accidentially whlile mixing ...
after that i had to search for hours to find out what went wrong, cos it just didn't sound right anymore ... as i'm talking about very subtle changes, hardly noticable when analyzing what went wrong, but heavily effective for the entire mix, when applied ...

4. when arranging, often you have to cut out a whole "area", say 8 bars, from your arrangement.
now, when doing so, there might be leftover small snippets from parts, that were visually moved in the arrange (depending on the position), which you'd always have to delete manually after cutting out this area (also you'd ideally be bothered by "do you really want to split the part xy") ... not so, if it's done with a trackdelay (given the fact, that the part is not loger than the snap position) ...

For 'humanizing' the drums I might change between ahead or after for the snare for example. But I do all that by manually moving the parts, listening, and making choices. It takes some extra time maybe, but I see no problem in that since it's exactly the 'work on details' that I happen to like.

thats another important thing, which is actually really stunningly working in logic with one "transformer button":
in logic, you have transform-functions, which you can open in windows, multiple, to include various predefined tranforms you often need, into the screenset. there's various presets for different tasks, and one of them is, yes, you already guessed it: a humanizer ...
which really does it's job very well, it' stunning, i always tend not to believe it again and again ... but you actually have to hear the function in work, to believe me ...

I agree with what Klemperer suggested. I'll turn that into a somewhat more general obversation, not directed against anything you wrote btw.

don't worry, you seem to be very constructive, this is _always_ very interresting for me ...

What I see around me is that the wish and/or need to do everything as fast and simple as possible has a devastating effect on music, the arts, culture in general. I know of course that record producers (or sound engineers) and musicians are very different categories as DAW users. Both however IMO should never accept the monstrous idea that time is money. It simply isn't. In audio recording and everything connected to it we might need an equivalent of the 'slow food' idea where time is an opportunity for quality. BTW as pipelineaudio often rightly stated, the faster today's DAWs are, the less money he'll get for the work done in them

well, here it comes, the knife with two blades:
while i agree to a certain degree on this point (musicmaking is art, and ideally should be treated as such), there's also the other side.
i do this stuff for my living. that's why i have to plan the things that way.
which means, i have to guess a certain ammount of time for the certain job i have to do.
now, if there's a "workaround-host", where i have to always have to put more effort in it to reach the same result, it would mean, that i would need a longer time period for the job, which will generate the same ammout, not more ammount of money.
in other words, in a host that supports me wherever it can, i could ideally spoken, do more jobs for the same money, as i would need just a fraction of time, compared to the "workaround-host" ...
the fact that i'd need a longer time period to do the same job wouldn't give me the right to ask for more money ...
when i negotiate on the ammount of money, i have to stay realistic, after the negotiation the price is fixed ... so when i aftewards possibly find out, that i need more time for doing the job, i'd not get more money ...
i sometimes made mistakes in guessing how long i need for a certain job, and even though i was paid really good for it, i needed that long, that in the end the whole job wasn't lukrative for me at all ...

conclusion:
i would say, that pipeline audio should maybe never tell his "job-givers" how fast his daw is ...

A popular phrase in these forums when people suggest workarounds: work + around = more work. So what's wrong with that? If that work isn't your passion, stop doing it alltogether! Think of all the hours and labour that went into say the Beatles' white album or the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds... These are not particularly the results of 'great workflow!' or 'fast and easy!':)

well, i don't know about you, but i for one have to do several steps again and again, after several years this gets on my nerves ...
don't get me wrong, i love my bizz, but another example:
i often have to do samples for sounddesigning.
now, while i can do a lot of stuff very easy and fast in logic, the bouncing in logic pc is always realtime.
that means, i have to record every note i need in midi (say, commonly all 3 halftones a new sampe/note).
depending on the sound, a note must be held about 10-30 seconds (which you wont use in the end of course), just to ensure, that you have enough time for perfect looping afterwards, then cutting the sample.
taking in account, that there are at least 25 notes that have to be sampled for a common multisample (c0-c6) without velocity switching, you end up with approx. 10! min waiting for the bounce _only_ ... now considder 128 patches with their own samples ... you get the picture, don't you?
now, if i could avoid to spend this time by a faster offline-boncing, and a more intelligent workflow provided by the host, i could rapidly speed up my work ...
to me that's a fact that actually matters a lot, even if i wouldn't necessarily gain more jobs of this time saving, i still have a family and a life, you know what i mean ...
to say it like this:
i wouldn't mind if i _don't_ have to work averagely 13 hours a day ...

Sorry for getting off topic.

you were absolutely on topic ... while we were discussing midi in the beginning, it's the overall workflow i was criticizing in on hosts in general, always hoping, that one of those dev's already give in to this ...

But in my view an artist is someone who's trying to overcome great obstacles, sometimes created by him(or her)self. If people who create things don't try to do something that seems to be impossible, they better don't do it all and choose a regular job. In that respect 'workflow' might be a highly anti-creative phenomenon.

another point where you're right in a way, but also here i have a bit of a different thinking:
a host that greatly supports me wouldn't stop me from trying stuff that is not obviously easy on a host ... it just would lift the overall quality state ... IMO ...
i do see myself as an artist, yet i have to take steps forward over the time, not backwards, needing more time to reach the same state as before ...

But: a great post, Brok. No doubt Justin will read it and keep it in mind.

all i can say is ditto ... you made several clever points ...
such interresting discussions i had very few here on kvr ... thanks for your intellingent insight here!

[brok landers]

alex zonder,
can you maybe post a link of our discussion over to the reaper forum?
i don't want to subscribe to just another forum, i'm into too many already ...
is that possible?

[alex zonder]

alex zonder,
can you maybe post a link of our discussion over to the reaper forum?
i don't want to subscribe to just another forum, i'm into too many already ...
is that possible?

Of course that's possible. In what section should I post it? For instance:

- MIDI requests (sticky thread)
- feature requests forum
- REAPER discussions in other forums (sticky thread)
- General discussion forum

[brok landers]

wherever you might think it's placed best, i think it's better for you to judge about it ... my hope is, that justin reads this, an loses some words about it in whatever direction ...
as it's not about midi only, but about the workflow-philosophy in general i'd better not decide myself where to post it ...

in any way:
thank you so much for doing this!
lemme have a link then, so i can follow, if necessary!

[Tony Ostinato]

I use my laptop onstage as a vsti host and i prefer things onscreen to be as dark as possible with as much black space as possible.

no daw really offers that atm, anyone wanna make a reaper skin with that in mind? just for funs sake?

that last mixer would look good in black.....

[Pipelineaudio]

Im still flipping a loop that Tony Ostinato seems not overtly hostile to REAPER

Tony, have you seen white tie's newest thread asking to vote on which skin he should work on? theres a pretty cool black one you might like

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11401

Dont get me wrong, I will break the legs of anyone who votes against "trouble maker" but if theres enough interest in "none more black" that would be cool too

[alex zonder]

wherever you might think it's placed best, i think it's better for you to judge about it ... my hope is, that justin reads this, an loses some words about it in whatever direction ...
as it's not about midi only, but about the workflow-philosophy in general i'd better not decide myself where to post it ...

in any way:
thank you so much for doing this!
lemme have a link then, so i can follow, if necessary!

brok, it's in general discussion forum here: http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread. ... #post98360

[alex zonder]

I use my laptop onstage as a vsti host and i prefer things onscreen to be as dark as possible with as much black space as possible.

no daw really offers that atm, anyone wanna make a reaper skin with that in mind? just for funs sake?

that last mixer would look good in black.....

aldi just posted his new Silverlining theme over at the REAPER forum... Let's quote it

[Tony Ostinato]

i havent tried reaper actually yet, i'll get around to it, but ive always been a big supporter of DAW programmers, not just steinbergs. programming is wicked hard.

i liked none more black but it could be even more black for me! that last one is pretty but a little too fruity loops, and not black!