Sonic Reality

torgo · Post by **torgo** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:41 pm

It fits for your situation - if you're well-stocked for the basics, a fun package like Cinematik is a good choice. You might also find it offers different "flavors" of brass, strings etc from what you already have.

On the three Latin sets, note that the Latin Caribbean one is over 1.9 gig once it's unzipped. The Brazilian is 1.1 gig, and the Afro-Cuban is 943 meg. So if you're not seeking specific styles and just want something to add a little spice, you'll get the most "stuff" out of the Caribbean set. I think it might be the single largest add-on library title in SampleTank format.

Likewise, for anyone who wants to try out one of the "construction set" type of loops packages (the ones where you get bits and pieces that you can mix and arrange to create entire songs without actually playing a note), check out the demos of the Trip Hop one.

The story there is that the XpansionTank titles were created from the ReTanks available here, but they aren't exact one-for-one matchups. The Trip Hop Beats title in ReTank format was split into two titles in the XT versions: Trip Hop Beats and also Down Tempo Electronica. So the ReTank version is essentially two loops packages in one title, and it includes about 1.75 gig of loops once it's unzipped. If you're into that sort of thing, that's the title that offers the most bang for the buck.

-torgo (esoundz = bhall1968)

torgo · Post by **torgo** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:44 pm

Examigan wrote:It would be great if the sale went into June when I actually have some extra $$

I'd like to get Samplemoog

You never know - the big sales last year did get extended. This one might be a bit tough though, as it would be up to IK to extend the $99 price. Esoundz really doesn't have any say in it.

subtlearts · Post by **subtlearts** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:46 pm

Good to know about the Caribbean set - that might come up for consideration again if/when we hit 300... I don't mind Trip-hop beats and such, but the notion of putting together a track from a construction set rubs me the wrong way somehow. I know, different strokes for different folks and I'm glad people with other proclivities are catered to here but that's really not how I roll.

alacantec · Post by **alacantec** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:01 pm

Thanks Darkstar!

Xenobt · Post by **Xenobt** » Wed May 11, 2011 6:45 am

Torgo, it would be quicker to tell what you DON'T know about ST libraries!

So while we're digging into the them, I have a few dark horse candidates for bonus choices...

Hip Hop Instruments has BIG subby synth basses, buzzy leads and stabs, Strat, Les Paul and nylon/steel string guitars, edgy orchestral colors (they're so tough, the folder's named orchesTRIAL!), a studio full of classic drum machines, and a patch called Clean Piano that's one of the most real-in-a-room pianos I've EVER heard.

Electronic Drums- All the classic Roland CR/TR series in one library, plus some nice surprises. There's some HUGE acoustic toms that give you that movie trailer vibe when mixed with the lighter electronica/rhythm machine stuff. Lots of excellent fx programming in the child presets too. Layer some of these kicks with your pop/rock kits... YOW!

And Nashville Pop features drum performances that work GREAT for rock, pop or alternative. Check out the demo, it's a LOT more than country! Works well in Sampletank sync mode too, just don't get TOO far out of the listed BPM. Brings INSTANT energy and realism to your track!

Really, it depends on what you need more of, modern, well recorded stereo loops and fills from a talented drummer, a treasure chest of expensive vintage drum machines, or an epic set of sounds with vibe for days. Tough choice!

I chose these sets since they surprised me as end-of-group-buy choices during last years Sampletank 8x1 XTravaganza. (10x1 on eSoundz!) I didn't think they fit with what I do, but now they're a integral part of how I work.

HUH!

eSoundz: Xenobt

subtlearts · Post by **subtlearts** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:02 am

OK I've played through everything in the Cinematik set now and I have to say, it's kind of a strange collection. There are some nice things in there for sure, and some of them will doubtless get used. It is definitely very 'film-ish' as Torgo intimated, not that that should have been a huge surprise given the title.

But I have to say it's kind of a confused and random-feeling affair all things considered. I suspect the thing to do would be to go through it again and reorganize it into categorized sub-folders, as the alphabetical order presentation is really all over the place - solo strings and winds beside weird atmospheric pads beside almost-inaudible ambient rumblings beside piano-with-strings beside orchestral percussion...

Also, as Torgo mentioned already, frequently a nice string or other lush pad is interrupted by a weird dissonant sound that comes in a second or so along. I really wish there were a way to disable these layers, or play them separately so you could determine if/when they appeared. As it is I'm really having trouble imagining where they would be really usable, and it's kind of a shame as in many cases the pad and/or the ambience/sting would be quite cool to have on their own.

Finally... many of the pads and strings have no release whatsoever, so they just stop in a really jarring way. Perhaps this is intended for swells into a fast stop for visual/dramatic purposes, but it actually makes them very difficult to play anything on them. Wouldn't it be better to let us play the sound how we want to and then, if the scene calls for it, do the sudden cut-off in the mixdown, or in post, or whatever? Basically I'm going to have to go through and save all of these with a release time that makes them playable.

No matter. It's a mixed bag and there are certainly some gems in there so I can't really complain for the price (err, free)... I would probably be a bit more disappointed if I'd paid for it, and if I could do it over again (maybe I'll be able to if we hit 300!) I would probably try something different. So it goes!

sensone · Post by **sensone** » Wed May 11, 2011 10:20 am

Hi, I have a question.
Which library of trons would be better for hip hop, reggae, jungle, dubstep?
How can I select it as a free library? I have not had them in the choice of a free library.

subtlearts · Post by **subtlearts** » Wed May 11, 2011 11:35 am

The only Tron-specific packages in the free list are the 'exclusives' for people that have either SampleTron or Squids Tron and want the extra sounds that are in the other one that they don't have. They are both around the same size (800meg or so) and because they're the stuff that *isn't* common to SampleTron/Squids Tron in a way by definition they're somewhat less focused on bread-and-butter stuff.

I wouldn't necessarily say that any Tron collection is specifically more or less useful for the styles you mention. I have the SampleTron exclusives and it's got a bunch of old TalentMaker and loops (kinda cheesy but in a groovy way) and other loops/sfx, alongside a number of quite decent instrument patches - the big Watcher In The Skies sound, choirs&strings, brass&flutes and so on. I can't speak for the Squids Exclusives though... so as to which would be a better choice for a free lib minus the other main library it's intended to complement... ummm, torgo?

torgo · Post by **torgo** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:30 pm

sensone wrote:Hi, I have a question.
Which library of trons would be better for hip hop, reggae, jungle, dubstep?
How can I select it as a free library? I have not had them in the choice of a free library.

Hmmm... now THAT's an interesting 'Tron question that doesn't come up too often.

I have to start by asking the standard question: are Mellotron sounds really going to be what you want in the first place? My gut reaction is - particularly for reggae - you'd probably get a lot more use out of something other than a collection of old Mellotron tape frames.

It would help to know which kinds of sounds you're after. Mellotrons were originally used mainly as a way of getting violin/cello/string ensemble sounds without actually having to bring in an orchestra. Are you specifically after strings? Choir? Organ and keyboard sounds? Cheesy rhythm backbeats?

The obvious second question is which of the five main IK instruments do you have (or plan to get)? Sonik Synth 2 already has a good collection of Tron sounds.

I'll have to sort through the two main libraries (I have the full SampleTron and Squids Tron rather than the "exclusive extras" versions) and list the overlaps to get a better feel for what each "exclusive extras" might offer as an individual package. Give me a moment on that one...

subtlearts · Post by **subtlearts** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:47 pm

I will second Torgo's point that SS2 has a very good solid base of bread-and-butter Tron sounds. Whether they're suitable for the styles of music you listed... well, kinda hard to say.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Wed May 11, 2011 2:56 pm

Almost half-way there to the next tier! I think you guys can do it. Some of you, besides Torgo, are also going to get some random epointz for just keeping this thread going with your helpful thoughts and opinions to others. That is making other people notice which draws more people into the group buy AND it helps people make an informed decision (even if it is for their FREEEEEEEE libraries - I am sure they appreciate it). Don't forget to find other places on the net to post and put a link here. Not only will other people be glad they heard about it before it is over (and we are now running out of time as this ends at the end of this month!) but you could win some free epointz download credits which supports your sound needs!

Now, to make my post extra fun and because I am a cheeseball deluxe. The first person to name the movie this is quoted from gets $5 in epointz. No GOOGLING! "How were they? Were they built for speed or for comfort? Did you do the motorboat? You did you old sailor you!"

jsp1979 · Post by **jsp1979** » Wed May 11, 2011 2:58 pm

Easy...

Wedding Crashers

esoundz: SmokeyJ

sensone · Post by **sensone** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:00 pm

I bought SS & ST.I have to take four free libraries and probably would be six.

"Plus as a bonus we have these two options (Tron Sounds):
http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=2173& refcode=HBGBKVR
http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=2144& refcode=HBGBKVR"

This option is not for me,only for those who bought other tron sounds?I have not tested tron sounds from ss2.I know the sound of tron and I like them.I move in these genres that I mentioned.I know that are not frequently used in these generes. Sounds do not have to fit all generes.I ask that they fit more or which ones are better?If I can not select these sounds as a free library, my question is irrelevant.

If something is incomprehensible. Sorry. Dr.google helped me in translation.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:03 pm

jsp1979 wrote:Easy...

Wedding Crashers

esoundz: SmokeyJ

Congrats!

torgo · Post by **torgo** » Wed May 11, 2011 3:08 pm

subtlearts wrote:Finally... many of the pads and strings have no release whatsoever, so they just stop in a really jarring way. Perhaps this is intended for swells into a fast stop for visual/dramatic purposes, but it actually makes them very difficult to play anything on them. Wouldn't it be better to let us play the sound how we want to and then, if the scene calls for it, do the sudden cut-off in the mixdown, or in post, or whatever? Basically I'm going to have to go through and save all of these with a release time that makes them playable.

Perfect time to introduce people to some quick editing capabilities, because those strings in Cinematik do indeed have some really odd initial settings!

SampleTank isn't just a playback device. It's more like the hardware keyboard synths of the '80s and '90s - you have these sounds as starting points, but you can tweak the heck out of them to the point that you wouldn't even recognize the original sound. So if you have a slightly flawed sound, like the strings in the Cinematik Collection, you can work with it.

Quick Tutorial: ADSR Envelopes and saving your own sounds

If you have Cinematik Collection, load up the sound called "Outside In Inside Out".

If you have Miroslav, go to Strings sections, full strings, and select "Full strings".

If you have Sonik Synth 2, go to Orchestral Textures, Strings, and select "003 String Orchestra".

If you have something else, load up any kind of strings ensemble sound you can find.

In the middle of the interface, you'll see some buttons (basically just rectangles) with words like MACRO, SYNTH, etc. Select the one that says ENV1. The knobs to the left will show you (and let you change) the basic attack, decay, sustain, and release settings.

Outside In Inside Out is a beautiful basic orchestral patch. The problem is that when you let go of notes (particularly big chords), the sound ends so quickly that you get a sucking effect - sort of like an accordion.

If you don't have Cinematik but have one of the other strings sounds, let's start by recreating the problem that Subtlearts experienced with Cinematik: find the knob that says "REL" (the release setting, or how quickly the sound ends after you let go of the keys). Click on it and drag the mouse downward until you get a setting of something around 100ms.

(Note that you haven't done any permanent damage by fiddling with the knobs. There's an "undo" button on the right, or you could just load the sound again.)

Now play a nice chord, then another and another... Notice the abrupt endings and the "sucking" sound when you let go? Pretty weird.

By default, the Full Strings in Miroslav has a release time of 915ms. The string orchestra in Sonik Synth has a release of 1.5 seconds. But the Outside In Inside Out patch has a mere 120 ms release time.

So let's fix it... if you happen to have Cinematik, play along:

Outside In Inside Out has an attack of 30ms, 0 decay, and a 120 ms release. To make a nice "solo" or lead string sound, change the Attack to around 100 ms, turn the Decay up to about 260ms, and set the Release to 1.2 s.

While you're at it, give the thing a little more volume - the LEVEL knob is right next to the release knob. Bump it up to +5 or +8 db.

Now play some notes and see what you think... The sound still ends reasonably quickly - suitable for playing single notes as a solo - but without the abrupt sucking effect when you let go of a chord.

(For pure pad work, I'd probably set the release time even higher - something like 1.6 to 1.8 seconds.)

Next, let's save our new sound. On the right side of the interface, you'll see a "user preset" section with buttons/boxes labeled Rename, Save, and Delete.

Click "Save". A box will pop up asking you what you want to name your new sound. I called mine "Outside Solo". Your new preset will be saved, and the interface will go through a relist process to add your sound as a new child instrument.

(If you have a huge amount of sounds, it might take a while for it to resort the list.)

After saving it, your new instrument will be listed under its "parent" sound. To load the Outside Solo (or whatever name you gave it) sound, scroll through the sound list to Cinematik Collection, then to Outside In Inside Out. Click on the black triangle in front of the name to show the child sounds, and your new sound will appear on the list.

-torgo (esoundz = bhall1968)

Sonic Reality

KVR Audio

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