Roli Seaboard RISE

[Echoes in the Attic]

There is also a different if you play with MPE on or off. With MPE on you have f.e. an initial value of the midi cc74 (slide) depending on where you touch the keywave.
With MPE off you have the same value wherever you touch first and just with the first move after the initial touch a different value....At least in Logic.
But here is my problem with the "black" keys.
I prefer the MPE mode but i can't make initial values of the black keys under 64 this way.
It's a bit odd if you play all the white keys with filter down and the black just starts at a value of 64 (or so).
If anyone have an idea how to workaround this...it would be much aprecciated!

What if you press beneath the black key in between the two adjacent white keys? Does this trigger the black key at lower initial slide value? I think the keys go all the way up and down even though the layout mimics the traditional keyboard right? I wonder if they did this so that all keys have the same full range of slide control. For example a white key can be pushed up fully to the top, in between the black keys. Maybe the black keys can be initially triggered from between the white keys at the bottom.

Not sure, but I'm curious.. don't have a seaboard yet.

[Cinebient]

There is also a different if you play with MPE on or off. With MPE on you have f.e. an initial value of the midi cc74 (slide) depending on where you touch the keywave.
With MPE off you have the same value wherever you touch first and just with the first move after the initial touch a different value....At least in Logic.
But here is my problem with the "black" keys.
I prefer the MPE mode but i can't make initial values of the black keys under 64 this way.
It's a bit odd if you play all the white keys with filter down and the black just starts at a value of 64 (or so).
If anyone have an idea how to workaround this...it would be much aprecciated!

What if you press beneath the black key in between the two adjacent white keys? Does this trigger the black key at lower initial slide value? I think the keys go all the way up and down even though the layout mimics the traditional keyboard right? I wonder if they did this so that all keys have the same full range of slide control. For example a white key can be pushed up fully to the top, in between the black keys. Maybe the black keys can be initially triggered from between the white keys at the bottom.

Not sure, but I'm curious.. don't have a seaboard yet.

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

[igoramos]

In Logic f.e. i put the track (not the synth only) to channel 1 if i want to use it with non multi channel synths.

Great! thanks so much for the tip. This worked. I can keep the Dashboard settings Multi and just specify channel 1 in Logic for the track and it works!

Now if I can figure out how to do the same thing in Bitwig!!

With Bitwig by default I believe it will receive on any channel (or maybe channel 1, not sure). It's built-in instruments will receive notes on separate midi channels by default, but for VSTs, you need to right-click and set it 'Force MPE mode' which will make it receive notes on alternating channels. But i fyou want to play non-MPE style, set your roli dashboard to send on a single channel, which most instruments will require. Only set the dashboard to send on channels 2 and up if using bitwig instruments or VSTs that respond to note per channel (and you have Force MPE checked).

Thanks for the info. I am setting Dashboard to send on a single channel and that's exactly the problem. In single channel, using it as a standard type keyboard, the slider CC assignments do not make it to the track but the note on and off and aftertouch do. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way in Bitwig to "force" everything through channel 1 on the track cause this works in Cubase. To recap, when I use single mode in Dashboard and Midi mode on the Seaboard, in Bitwig, I can't send the slider CC values to the synths (in my case Reaktor Form). Midi monitor on my iMac shows the messages are being sent, but the Bitwig midimonitor on the track doesn't receive them.

[Echoes in the Attic]

In Logic f.e. i put the track (not the synth only) to channel 1 if i want to use it with non multi channel synths.

Great! thanks so much for the tip. This worked. I can keep the Dashboard settings Multi and just specify channel 1 in Logic for the track and it works!

Now if I can figure out how to do the same thing in Bitwig!!

With Bitwig by default I believe it will receive on any channel (or maybe channel 1, not sure). It's built-in instruments will receive notes on separate midi channels by default, but for VSTs, you need to right-click and set it 'Force MPE mode' which will make it receive notes on alternating channels. But i fyou want to play non-MPE style, set your roli dashboard to send on a single channel, which most instruments will require. Only set the dashboard to send on channels 2 and up if using bitwig instruments or VSTs that respond to note per channel (and you have Force MPE checked).

Thanks for the info. I am setting Dashboard to send on a single channel and that's exactly the problem. In single channel, using it as a standard type keyboard, the slider CC assignments do not make it to the track but the note on and off and aftertouch do. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way in Bitwig to "force" everything through channel 1 on the track cause this works in Cubase. To recap, when I use single mode in Dashboard and Midi mode on the Seaboard, in Bitwig, I can't send the slider CC values to the synths (in my case Reaktor Form). Midi monitor on my iMac shows the messages are being sent, but the Bitwig midimonitor on the track doesn't receive them.

Strange indeed. So you have 'Force MPE mode' off? And you mean the three cc sliders right? As opposed to the slide control on the notes themselves? I thuoght the sliders were just normal cc controls, which could be learned to anything. Midi learn in Reaktor doesn't work with those?

[Echoes in the Attic]

There is also a different if you play with MPE on or off. With MPE on you have f.e. an initial value of the midi cc74 (slide) depending on where you touch the keywave.
With MPE off you have the same value wherever you touch first and just with the first move after the initial touch a different value....At least in Logic.
But here is my problem with the "black" keys.
I prefer the MPE mode but i can't make initial values of the black keys under 64 this way.
It's a bit odd if you play all the white keys with filter down and the black just starts at a value of 64 (or so).
If anyone have an idea how to workaround this...it would be much aprecciated!

What if you press beneath the black key in between the two adjacent white keys? Does this trigger the black key at lower initial slide value? I think the keys go all the way up and down even though the layout mimics the traditional keyboard right? I wonder if they did this so that all keys have the same full range of slide control. For example a white key can be pushed up fully to the top, in between the black keys. Maybe the black keys can be initially triggered from between the white keys at the bottom.

Not sure, but I'm curious.. don't have a seaboard yet.

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

Ok I get what you're saying now. You can't trigger a black key in between the white keys in the lower half, so you can't have an initial Y value below 64. I'm surprised that there isn't semi tone quantization everywhere rather than apparently whole tone quantization in the white key area. It seems unlikely that someone would play so inaccurately as to need quantization to a full tone. There should at least be an option if that's how the slide control works with initial value. Or an option to have the full slide range be within the black key range of the upper portion. I'm curious to hear what Roli say about that

Just out of curiosity - When you strike a black key at around the bottom, thus triggering an initial Y value of around 64, can you drag downwards to lower it (in between the white keys)?

[igoramos]

Strange indeed. So you have 'Force MPE mode' off? And you mean the three cc sliders right? As opposed to the slide control on the notes themselves? I thuoght the sliders were just normal cc controls, which could be learned to anything. Midi learn in Reaktor doesn't work with those?

Hi Echoes,

thanks for the response. In Bitwig, yes, I have 'Force MPE mode' off. And yes, I mean the 3 assignable sliders to the left using seaboards single channel midi mode (power button dot is white). When I reset the device and the sliders are assigned to their default CC controllers (107, 109, 111), these values make it into the track and I can learn them, but when I assign the sliders to any other CC number in the pulldown list of the dashboard, they get transmitted, but do not make it to the track.

I can't help but think this is a software bug at this point...

[Cinebient]

There is also a different if you play with MPE on or off. With MPE on you have f.e. an initial value of the midi cc74 (slide) depending on where you touch the keywave.
With MPE off you have the same value wherever you touch first and just with the first move after the initial touch a different value....At least in Logic.
But here is my problem with the "black" keys.
I prefer the MPE mode but i can't make initial values of the black keys under 64 this way.
It's a bit odd if you play all the white keys with filter down and the black just starts at a value of 64 (or so).
If anyone have an idea how to workaround this...it would be much aprecciated!

What if you press beneath the black key in between the two adjacent white keys? Does this trigger the black key at lower initial slide value? I think the keys go all the way up and down even though the layout mimics the traditional keyboard right? I wonder if they did this so that all keys have the same full range of slide control. For example a white key can be pushed up fully to the top, in between the black keys. Maybe the black keys can be initially triggered from between the white keys at the bottom.

Not sure, but I'm curious.. don't have a seaboard yet.

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

Ok I get what you're saying now. You can't trigger a black key in between the white keys in the lower half, so you can't have an initial Y value below 64. I'm surprised that there isn't semi tone quantization everywhere rather than apparently whole tone quantization in the white key area. It seems unlikely that someone would play so inaccurately as to need quantization to a full tone. There should at least be an option if that's how the slide control works with initial value. Or an option to have the full slide range be within the black key range of the upper portion. I'm curious to hear what Roli say about that

Just out of curiosity - When you strike a black key at around the bottom, thus triggering an initial Y value of around 64, can you drag downwards to lower it (in between the white keys)?

Yes, i can drag the values down after first touch, so i can use the whole range but not as initial touch....it´s a very strange behaviour.
I wonder what all the famous artists make with it in the videos....i´m the only one to care about....means i´m a bloody amateur
Someone said that at the beginning the Seaboard grand could have microtonal pitches as well but after an update it was quantized all the way too.
They are a bit like Apple...buy our expensive (but well crafted) stuff and then we will take things away and WE say how YOU have to use the thing, because we don´t want you dumb person to play bad notes. (DRAMATIZED!)
But really, before they introduce another "thing" i would appreciate that they offer a lot more options to set the Seaboard up like i want.
It´s a bit sad because the Seaboard could do so much more. I ended up now mainly to use it to play mono synths polyphonic or use it in normal mode...means just using velocity.
I play my iOS apps on the iPhone itslef because it offers better performence if you don´t need to play 2 hand chords
But i like the feel of the silicon more than hard keys now
I hope still they update that freaking dashboard, iron out bugs, offer more options to change settings and DON`T introduce again new bugs.
The love/hate goes on. I even tryed to sold it but even for nearly the half price no one was interested....mmhhhhhh
I maybe try once more to contact support (they already know me hahaha...) and see what they say about this stupid limitations. But i doubt my little voice count...

[igoramos]

Strange indeed. So you have 'Force MPE mode' off? And you mean the three cc sliders right? As opposed to the slide control on the notes themselves? I thuoght the sliders were just normal cc controls, which could be learned to anything. Midi learn in Reaktor doesn't work with those?

Hi Echoes,

thanks for the response. In Bitwig, yes, I have 'Force MPE mode' off. And yes, I mean the 3 assignable sliders to the left using seaboards single channel midi mode (power button dot is white). When I reset the device and the sliders are assigned to their default CC controllers (107, 109, 111), these values make it into the track and I can learn them, but when I assign the sliders to any other CC number in the pulldown list of the dashboard, they get transmitted, but do not make it to the track.

I can't help but think this is a software bug at this point...

P.S. this exact same setup works perfectly in Cubase when I make sure the track is set to channel 1 and not "Any".

[Echoes in the Attic]

Strange indeed. So you have 'Force MPE mode' off? And you mean the three cc sliders right? As opposed to the slide control on the notes themselves? I thuoght the sliders were just normal cc controls, which could be learned to anything. Midi learn in Reaktor doesn't work with those?

Hi Echoes,

thanks for the response. In Bitwig, yes, I have 'Force MPE mode' off. And yes, I mean the 3 assignable sliders to the left using seaboards single channel midi mode (power button dot is white). When I reset the device and the sliders are assigned to their default CC controllers (107, 109, 111), these values make it into the track and I can learn them, but when I assign the sliders to any other CC number in the pulldown list of the dashboard, they get transmitted, but do not make it to the track.

I can't help but think this is a software bug at this point...

P.S. this exact same setup works perfectly in Cubase when I make sure the track is set to channel 1 and not "Any".

Do you know what channel you set them to and what the are by default? i know bitwig only responds to channels 2 and up for notes. Perhaps it doesnt listen to midi channel 1 at all?

but if the default cc's worl, why need to reassign them anyways? just wondering.

[igoramos]

yeh, good point. I was thinking since I just got the Roli, it'd be nice to know its fully functioning in the trial period I have to keep it... But, yeh, working around this is not a huge deal...

[SteveElbows]

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

This is not the experience I get at all!

For me it works fine, I can trigger the black keys no matter how far down the device I am pressing (ie in between the white keys), and I do indeed get black note cc74 (y slide) values starting at 0 when I trigger the note using the very lowest part of the playing surface.

The only way I can replicate the behaviour you are describing is if I set the Roli glide (pitch) control slider to be off completely. Because as soon as I turn it on even a tiny bit, I get the behaviour I've described above.

Therefore the limitations that are being discussed in recent posts on this thread are, thankfully, not actually the case

[Cinebient]

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

This is not the experience I get at all!

For me it works fine, I can trigger the black keys no matter how far down the device I am pressing (ie in between the white keys), and I do indeed get black note cc74 (y slide) values starting at 0 when I trigger the note using the very lowest part of the playing surface.

The only way I can replicate the behaviour you are describing is if I set the Roli glide (pitch) control slider to be off completely. Because as soon as I turn it on even a tiny bit, I get the behaviour I've described above.

Therefore the limitations that are being discussed in recent posts on this thread are, thankfully, not actually the case

I mean in mode glide off...sorry, i should say that clear (my english is poor).
But then i can't make glissandos. So i have to turn the glide on, touch the key and then turn it off again because i will not pitch bend then. And the sliders are not very accurate at all sometimes so that i have to turn it off twice or more often until it stays at zero.
I would like to have at least an option and way less bugs.
Edit: Also it´s nearly impossible to hit the right key with high velocity this way because even when i hit the same area i get different notes then....too fat fingers maybe
Only with low velocities it works mostly
The black keys are still not usable this way for me below their "main" area.
The white keys def. are more dominant here. The whole thing is not very accurate especially with high velocities and the moving material.
Once i got a replacement because when i hit a certain keywave with high velocity i got the next higher note instead of the right (and i was not even near it).
I think it´s not so easy to build the surface of each device to work 100% accurate. Like i said love/hate. I love the feel of it but my touch screens are still better in any area (beside velocity and tactile feedback of course).
But i´m interested what they will show us tomorrow.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

This is not the experience I get at all!

For me it works fine, I can trigger the black keys no matter how far down the device I am pressing (ie in between the white keys), and I do indeed get black note cc74 (y slide) values starting at 0 when I trigger the note using the very lowest part of the playing surface.

The only way I can replicate the behaviour you are describing is if I set the Roli glide (pitch) control slider to be off completely. Because as soon as I turn it on even a tiny bit, I get the behaviour I've described above.

Therefore the limitations that are being discussed in recent posts on this thread are, thankfully, not actually the case

Same here. The black keys extend all the way down into the divets between the white keys. The only plays there's "white key quantization" taking place is at the horizontal pitchbend/glide/ribbon strip down at the bottom of the Rise, but if you don't want that, do your bends/glides at the top.

[Cinebient]

This is THE problem. Below the black keys it seems to quantize to the nearest white key. No option to change that....
Also no initial micropitches are possible.
I like the quantized option for glissando f.e. but why bother me to use it always?!?!?!?!?
Strange is that this works in their Noise iOS app (on the touch screen only)...means the app is more advanced and let me still do much smoother pitch bends etc.

This is not the experience I get at all!

For me it works fine, I can trigger the black keys no matter how far down the device I am pressing (ie in between the white keys), and I do indeed get black note cc74 (y slide) values starting at 0 when I trigger the note using the very lowest part of the playing surface.

The only way I can replicate the behaviour you are describing is if I set the Roli glide (pitch) control slider to be off completely. Because as soon as I turn it on even a tiny bit, I get the behaviour I've described above.

Therefore the limitations that are being discussed in recent posts on this thread are, thankfully, not actually the case

Same here. The black keys extend all the way down into the divets between the white keys. The only plays there's "white key quantization" taking place is at the horizontal pitchbend/glide/ribbon strip down at the bottom of the Rise, but if you don't want that, do your bends/glides at the top.

Do you read my (edited) post?
For my fat fingers the black keys are not usable below with high velocities anyway....

[SteveElbows]

Less than 2 hours left to speculate on what the announcement might be.

I kinda hope it's a new instrument, one that breaks with the classic keyboard shape paradigm.