Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

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bmanic wrote:But see, that was NAS's whole point. Why on earth do you have to make a virtual console like that when there are much neater and tidier ways of putting the same information on screen using much less screen real estate and making it more intuitive/usable? Do you REALLY think they would have made mixing consoles look like they did in the 80's if they could build them like it's possible in the virtual domain?

Cheers!
bManic
Everything on the mixer is as small as it can be (think Reason device scale) and the whole thing takes up less space than the mixer in Cubase, where vast expanses of screen real estate are used simply for air between stuff. You can see the sends, inserts and EQ all at the same time which isn't even possible in the all-virtual Cubase mixer unless you open multiple Mixer instances, or click your way through multiple views like All Sends 1-4, All Sends 5-8, All Inserts, All Equalizers etc. *That* you would need a 300" screen for if you want a total overview.

And if there's some part of the mixer you don't wish to see you can collapse it. Plus there's a navigation pane with a miniature view. So it's actually very compact and the only way to make it smaller without also making it so small you need a magnifying glass, is to remove things entirely, e.g. reduce the number of sends, EQ bands etc. The notion that Props wouldn't give "bang for pixel" is frankly a little ridiculous, as the standard complaint is that the graphics are too small and compact and that there should be a way to scale everything up by 2x.

You've seen an online video of a quick demo done on a low res projector by someone who barely knew the product... it's kind of like writing a definitive movie review based on a shaky bootleg excerpt of the trailer.

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No nothing like writing a review at all
Kind of more like noting a few things from a crappy video by a guy who didn't have a clue what he was doing with the app
Yes we will look at it tomo in depth but the reality is that PH wanted these sorts of discussions to be taking place or they wouldn't have hyped the product would they

Problem is that so far everybody i have spoken to about it thinks it is a joke
So my point stands and that is that their hype hasn't worked

You obviously either work closely with props or it is a really amazing app and you just want to let us know
Problem is that their little hype campaign has kinda ruled that out now hasn't it

Just as you think we are being pointless saying this and that so are you unless you are going to come up with screen shots or proper details to disprove anything that is said ;)

NAS
Omerta

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Cool. It records audio. :D

Just kidding... I know it's not meant for me so I'll assume that to be the main reason (no pun intended) that I don't get it. I'm sure there are others who will "get it" and buy it and use it and be happy with it.

It looks, in some areas like the toolbar and transport, a lot like some version of Cubase. I saw a pencil tool up there so I assume it allows some editing that he didn't show.

Curious that he didn't mention automation though I sure it's gotta be in there. I hope it succeeds for them.

P.S. Having tried SAW a couple times I'm not a fan of the extended virtual hardware channel design of the mixer thing. He did a lot of scrolling in that little demo.

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I think this looks like a blast. I like the SSL analogue, with the long channel strips (like SAW Studio, another KVR fave ; ), and if it has the effect from Line6's Gearbox somehow woven in, then I can't see any room to complain on that front. I also like the idea of not having to deal with project folders and lots of discrete files. RECORD, apparently, puts it all in one file. Seemlessly portable across any and all RECORD users. Pretty cool!
Music is something you DO. Spend time, not money.
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Im not a reason user (although i use recycle extensively), and i dont think i'll ditch steinys products for this, but i dont think they are going after established users anyway.

I think it WILL be a Garageband/Sequel type app that will attempt to "break" new users into the market, and that they want to ride on Reasons very well-earned reputation to fire the whole shebang up.


Not exactly Innovation Personified IMHO, but if they pull it off they will make some bucks for sure ..... they have the advertising resources AND the reputation AND the "street cred" to make it happen, three things other newcomer DAW's cant really boast about (not all three anyway).


Reading this thread i think two things

1) I know a lot of younger ppl both personally and online that want to get into DAWs/recording etc, but even Cubase LE makes them go spiral-eyed.
Is the new, incoming market of nascent DAW users crying out for a simpler app?
By "simple" i mean MUCH simpler than even Cubase LE or equivalant.
The above question is not rhetorical, i myself dont know and am kinda curious.

2) Like i said, established users are not the market.
I could be VERY wrong about this but it hasnt been mentioned yet AFAIK so i thought i would put it out there.
Prestissimo in Moto Perpetuo

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Ok i'll change my mind again.
After watching the video it seems like a great 4.5 upgrade for reason. In that you really need to have reason with it, so people who already have and use reason will probably buy.

Reason was the first program I actually paid for (after reaper), and at that time i'd do my midi parts in reason, rewire into reaper and have to do the guitars/effects there. This program seems to do what I was wanting for reason back then (before I moved to logic/live) - Do the reason parts + add vocals/guitar/whatever in the same program.

I can actually now see the benefits of it, I don't think that reasons effects are anywhere on par with logic or live (though please feel free to contradict me on that point) - but given that when you open record reason runs in the backround, essentially all it has is "audio in" in reason!

It would be a great way to put together simple songs. If it comes with some sort of guitar input dongle? or even a DECENT suite of gearbox plugins (as opposed to an LE version) - I may just consider buying this. It may make for a decent self contained "create a simple song" without too many apps and vst plugins type setup. (and then of course pump it over to live or logic etc to keep going).

sure these features could have been here a while ago - but hey it sounds like it may work quite well. I assume there will be a whole new library of reason effects presets to go with record?

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blank/diod wrote:But hey, Logic 9 is great news for the 3.36% of the world's computer users who are on Mac. Yes, that is their actual share on the computer market worldwide as of Q1, 2009.
That's a strange criticism coming from the spokesperson of an audio software company that offers all it's programs for both PC and Mac platforms. Obviously the management of Propellerheads finds it a viable enough market sector to put their energy into.

As has been said earlier, the overwhelming percentage of PCs being used, are in the corporate sector, so these stats aren't very meaningful to the current discussion, which centers on the audio realm. I wouldn't be surprised that Macs comprise 20-30% of the machines used in music production. It's certainly even higher than that in the professional environments that I've seen firsthand.

That being said, the real killer for Record will probably be Pro Tools 8 LE and M-Powered. Among numerous new features, Pro Tools LE now has a slick revamped interface, 48 stereo audio tracks (instead of only 16 in the previous versions) and upgraded effects and instruments. Not to mention it's a more mature and widely established product. All this for $250.00 new and $150.00 upgrade. Same target price as Record. The only catch is Digi hardware but there are entry level bundles that still keep it very competitive. I purchased an Mbox 2 Micro, bundled with LE 7, a couple of years ago for a special sale price of about $220.00. You can currently get an Mbox 2 Mini, bundled with LE 8, for under $300.00.

With the uprgraded LE features, Digi's competitive prices points and the industry standard dominance of Pro Tools making project portability very easy, I'm really not seeing the advantage of a product like Record as a standalone product in today's market. Record certainly an ideal tool for the existing Reason bedroom hobbyist to expand that product's features, but as a stand alone system for guitarist and bands to use... I think they'd be crazy to not drink the Pro Tools Kool-aide at this point in the game. And PT is dual platform too.

The only real drawback to PT is it's somewhat steep learning curve. But I think that anyone really serious about their music would be well served by taking the time to learn such a product. I'm pretty comfortable with audio apps so it really only took me a weekend to get used to it. I'm not particularity proficient with it, compared to the lightning fast pros that I've worked with in the film post world, but I make do. In a home recording environment speed is not as much an issue as it is in a pro recording studio where "time is money".

I'm certainly leaning towards spending $150.00 to upgrade to LE 8 and dumping Live, which I have yet to upgrade to 8.

Day late... dollar short. IMHO.

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Why would anyone get excited about this? Reason is already music software for beginners (not that there's anything wrong with that) but we are supposed to get excited about a new app that adds audio? And no VST / Au? It's really pathetic compared with what other software companies are developing for around the same price point. I think Propellerheads have totally lost it. I get Garageband free with a Mac and apps like Reaper and Tracktion are pretty cheap. This is woefully behind the times. Great if you are locked into Reason 100% but who but the most dedicated fanboys are nowadays? This company started out with so much promise but building a closed system to keep the code lean is stupid. I really hate saying this as I started out admiring the Props but they really need to develop apps for the 21st century.
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John Vulich wrote: I'm certainly leaning towards spending $150.00 to upgrade to LE 8 and dumping Live, which I have yet to upgrade to 8.
Let me say this..............I love Ableton and Live has loads of fantastic features. However, PT8 is beautiful, easy to use and (shock, horror) is running very smoothly on my system. I have been composing a bunch of orchestral pieces with Play and it's running fine so far at 18 tracks of Play samples. I do need to send it to Sibelius a lot so that feature helps and RTAS only is a pain. But it's working great and the audio editing...................sublime.
I invented coffee

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i dont think Reason is for beginners. From my own personal use, the countless professionals who use it and the fact that everyone who critizes Reason as being amateur, limiting, etc, DOESNT KNOW how to use it, brings my to the obvious answer..
'The science of rich men does not elevate all mankind, but only themselves.'
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dan_s wrote:i dont think Reason is for beginners. From my own personal use, the countless professionals who use it and the fact that everyone who critizes Reason as being amateur, limiting, etc, DOESNT KNOW how to use it, brings my to the obvious answer..
I know very well how to use it. I just don't like being given a limited number of tubes of color to paint a picture. And I'd bet that the pros who use it also use other stuff to get "their" sound. There is no way in hell that Reason is a 100%, "in the box" pro solution no matter what anyone says.
I invented coffee

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No offense to anyone, but calling Reason "software for beginners" is simply incorrect. Reason is used a lot in the biggest studios for some of the biggest productions (TV, band productions, electronic music). A lot of the instruments and effects are incredibly good (Scream, Thor, NNXT and the mastering effects in particular).

I own Zebra2, a Virus TI and have demoed almost all commercial VSTis out there (including Massive, Sylenth1, Rob Papen synths, GMedia synths .etc), yet I still can not remove Thor from my setup due to its sound. Even with the Virus TI in front of me, I still find myself coming back to Thor quite frequently. It is an amazing synth with a very nice sonic flavor.

I do agree that this move by Propellerheads is unusual but we will have to make our mind up after the product is released, the video shown here was clearly demoed by someone who didn't know the app at all.

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John Vulich wrote:
blank/diod wrote:But hey, Logic 9 is great news for the 3.36% of the world's computer users who are on Mac. Yes, that is their actual share on the computer market worldwide as of Q1, 2009.
That's a strange criticism coming from the spokesperson of an audio software company that offers all it's programs for both PC and Mac platforms. Obviously the management of Propellerheads finds it a viable enough market sector to put their energy into.
The spokeswhatnow? I was barely a spokesperson when I was an employee 11 years ago. If I'm a spokesperson for any company I help out with graphics I guess I'm also a spokesperson for, I dunno, IK Multimedia, but my Italian is horrible so I'd rather not. What's worse I might also be a spokesperson for Ericsson Radio Systems, AstraZeneca medicals, Radiohead, Audi and many others, including the Swedish police!
As has been said earlier, the overwhelming percentage of PCs being used, are in the corporate sector, so these stats aren't very meaningful to the current discussion, which centers on the audio realm. I wouldn't be surprised that Macs comprise 20-30% of the machines used in music production. It's certainly even higher than that in the professional environments that I've seen firsthand.
Absolutely. I'm on Mac myself about 50% of the time and I'll be going 100% Mac this year (note I didn't say 100% OS X ;)). I just found the quip about Logic a little weird since over half of Record's potential user base can't even install it. In order for something to be a Record killer it might have to, you know, at least run on the same platforms...?
That being said, the real killer for Record will probably be Pro Tools 8 LE and M-Powered...
Maybe. I think there's room for both and I don't quite see the mutual exclusivity since PT does ReWire and many PT users are already avid Reason users. Digi has the whole hardware thing going and Props haven't gone down that road yet.

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blank/diod wrote:You've seen an online video of a quick demo done on a low res projector by someone who barely knew the product... it's kind of like writing a definitive movie review based on a shaky bootleg excerpt of the trailer.
Oh, come on already! These guys cranked up the hype machine all by their own choice, started teasing people with little dribbles of info, hired an unqualified person to demonstrate the launch of a major new product, gave him a low res projector, probably even leaked those demo videos themselves (God knows they could have forbidden video taping at the event) and now you complain when people are speculating about the products details? Wasn't this the intended effect, to get people talking?
Last edited by John Vulich on Mon May 11, 2009 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dmacintyre wrote:
dan_s wrote:i dont think Reason is for beginners. From my own personal use, the countless professionals who use it and the fact that everyone who critizes Reason as being amateur, limiting, etc, DOESNT KNOW how to use it, brings my to the obvious answer..
I know very well how to use it. I just don't like being given a limited number of tubes of color to paint a picture. And I'd bet that the pros who use it also use other stuff to get "their" sound. There is no way in hell that Reason is a 100%, "in the box" pro solution no matter what anyone says.
Not sure what you're saying... :?

Only 100% in-the-box solutions are professional tools, or what? So a Steinway piano is for amateurs because it doesn't do audio recording and VST plugins?

Of course professionals use Reason along with stuff, I don't see how that disqualifies it from being a professional product. Luke Vibert made a few albums using nothing but Reason, though... so does that make Reason professional or Luke Vibert an amateur? Are people who have music as their profession and make their living on it not professionals? :shrug:

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