Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

so what is your alternative? well, other than doing away with subscriptions at all.

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

¡ya esta!

[Burillo]

You'll have to forgive me if this has already been raised ( but 26 pages is not fun). If I was to upgrade from my Sonar Producer 8.5 to Platinum, for a one off payment, (I believe Cakewalk state this as $199 in the UK here this may be £130) for a year. I will be dependent on Cakewalk actually issuing bugfixes within that time period.
My concern is that within the 12 months, not much may come forth from Cakewalk, or a particular problem may not be fixed within the 12 months.
I did not upgrade earlier due to the problems I read about with X1/X2. And only now being addressed with X3.
I could be stuck after 12 months with a buggy product still, and the only recourse is to consider paying for another year, in the hope it would be fixed within that time.

you can sit it out, no one is forcing you to upgrade.

[Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]]

i have made it clear many times what i feel cakewalk should do in the situation of incomplete subscription i.e to give the bugfixes that have accrued during the period the customer had been paying

What good will bug fixes do you if you don't have use of the software anyway? In your situation, before the first 12 months, it reverts to the demo... so... bug fixes for the demo?

on more than one occasion, i have made it clear that i am talking about legacy bugs

too busy sucking corporate cock to notice ??

I think we are all trying to answer your questions and concerns as best as possible. It's been pointed out already but your argument continues to morph. Honestly, I don't think any answer is going to make you happy. I am sorry that you are not happy with our model. We stand by it and think it's very customer friendly.

[Burillo]

so what is your alternative? well, other than doing away with subscriptions at all.

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

¡ya esta!

so you can't argue your position with anything other than "i don't like this system". great. it seems to me that you're trying to justify your dislike and are scrambling for arguments to support it, rather than have dislike formed because you found something wrong with the system.

[Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]]

You'll have to forgive me if this has already been raised ( but 26 pages is not fun). If I was to upgrade from my Sonar Producer 8.5 to Platinum, for a one off payment, (I believe Cakewalk state this as $199 in the UK here this may be £130) for a year. I will be dependent on Cakewalk actually issuing bugfixes within that time period.
My concern is that within the 12 months, not much may come forth from Cakewalk, or a particular problem may not be fixed within the 12 months.
I did not upgrade earlier due to the problems I read about with X1/X2. And only now being addressed with X3.
I could be stuck after 12 months with a buggy product still, and the only recourse is to consider paying for another year, in the hope it would be fixed within that time.

We will be updating the product on a monthly basis. Not just with fixes and improvements but will big ticket features. The idea is that in this more agile development process, we will work on smaller set of features and release them when they are ready. This will make for a better product. Also a smaller set of features multiple times throughout a year will allow users to really learn more about them and use them more effectively instead of getting all those features once every 1 or 2 years.

[whyterabbyt]

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

not quite sure why you're not making the same kind of fuss about all those companies who accept credit-card payments.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i have made it clear many times what i feel cakewalk should do in the situation of incomplete subscription i.e to give the bugfixes that have accrued during the period the customer had been paying

What good will bug fixes do you if you don't have use of the software anyway? In your situation, before the first 12 months, it reverts to the demo... so... bug fixes for the demo?

on more than one occasion, i have made it clear that i am talking about legacy bugs

too busy sucking corporate cock to notice ??

I think we are all trying to answer your questions and concerns as best as possible. It's been pointed out already but your argument continues to morph. Honestly, I don't think any answer is going to make you happy. I am sorry that you are not happy with our model. We stand by it and think it's very customer friendly.

what is your position on people finding themselves unable to complete the full-term ??

i am also interested in what checks you have in place to make sure that people have the means to complete on the payments ??

[clintmartin]

I just pre-ordered! Looking forward to the new and ever improving Sonar. You guys who constantly complain without any experience can now jump on board for $19.99 and see what you've been missing, or at least have some knowledge about what ever it is your complaining about...really this isn't a hard concept to grasp.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

not quite sure why you're not making the same kind of fuss about all those companies who accept credit-card payments.

well, there are various ways to cover yourself if not able to pay. you can also adjust payments to suit yourself

also, while it is possible for a kid to get hold of their parents credit card, those kind of authorised payments have a certain protection

what i am interested to find out is if there is anything to stop a 13-year old with a paypal account from getting himself 4 months use of a shiny, new daw

[Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]]

i have made it clear many times what i feel cakewalk should do in the situation of incomplete subscription i.e to give the bugfixes that have accrued during the period the customer had been paying

What good will bug fixes do you if you don't have use of the software anyway? In your situation, before the first 12 months, it reverts to the demo... so... bug fixes for the demo?

on more than one occasion, i have made it clear that i am talking about legacy bugs

too busy sucking corporate cock to notice ??

I think we are all trying to answer your questions and concerns as best as possible. It's been pointed out already but your argument continues to morph. Honestly, I don't think any answer is going to make you happy. I am sorry that you are not happy with our model. We stand by it and think it's very customer friendly.

what is your position on people finding themselves unable to complete the full-term ??

i am also interested in what checks you have in place to make sure that people have the means to complete on the payments ??

We develop software. We aren't a financing or credit check company. You have two options. First one you pay upfront and you're all set. Second, you get billed and we charge your credit card. We aren't going to be running background checks for this or anything.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

i have made it clear many times what i feel cakewalk should do in the situation of incomplete subscription i.e to give the bugfixes that have accrued during the period the customer had been paying

What good will bug fixes do you if you don't have use of the software anyway? In your situation, before the first 12 months, it reverts to the demo... so... bug fixes for the demo?

on more than one occasion, i have made it clear that i am talking about legacy bugs

too busy sucking corporate cock to notice ??

I think we are all trying to answer your questions and concerns as best as possible. It's been pointed out already but your argument continues to morph. Honestly, I don't think any answer is going to make you happy. I am sorry that you are not happy with our model. We stand by it and think it's very customer friendly.

what is your position on people finding themselves unable to complete the full-term ??

i am also interested in what checks you have in place to make sure that people have the means to complete on the payments ??

We develop software. We aren't a financing or credit check company. You have two options. First one you pay upfront and you're all set. Second, you get billed and we charge your credit card. We aren't going to be running background checks for this or anything.

good for you. you stand to make a lot of money

[Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]]

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

not quite sure why you're not making the same kind of fuss about all those companies who accept credit-card payments.

well, there are various ways to cover yourself if not able to pay. you can also adjust payments to suit yourself

also, while it is possible for a kid to get hold of their parents credit card, those kind of authorised payments have a certain protection

what i am interested to find out is if there is anything to stop a 13-year old with a paypal account from getting himself 4 months use of a shiny, new daw

We have a reputable e-commerce company that handles this...you realize that the issues you are pointing out apply to all online businesses right? I sorta feel like I am getting punked here

[whyterabbyt]

not quite sure why you're not making the same kind of fuss about all those companies who accept credit-card payments.

well, there are various ways to cover yourself if not able to pay. you can also adjust payments to suit yourself

but if you cant pay, you cant pay, right? that's your stated concern, not whether you can manage to sort things out so you can.

so in the situation of 'not being able to pay', which is your specific concern, there's no actual difference.

so, for that thing that you said concerns you, people who could reach a point where they cant pay what they owe, there is no actual difference. they still cant pay.

so, just like you're sure there will be 'lots' of people who cant make their 12 month payment with the CW subscription, Im as sure, for each and every company which takes credit cards, there will also be 'lots' of people who cant make their credit card payment. Thats why i find it odd that you're not bothered about accepting credit cards.
Especially since the repercussions for owing a credit card company tend to be a bit more awkward that not getting bugfixes on software.

[LawrenceF]

on more than one occasion, i have made it clear that i am talking about legacy bugs

too busy sucking corporate cock to notice ??

Nah, too busy watching you being told the exact same thing over and over and still (many posts later) not grasping it. When your subscription stops everything (updates, fixes) stops. Not very hard to grasp except for the truly dense.

I do appreciate your civility though.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

yup !! do away with subscriptions. a lot of people will fall for the trap of buying what they cannot totally afford. while it is easy to condemn them, i don't like that software companies are poised, ready to profit from that situation

not quite sure why you're not making the same kind of fuss about all those companies who accept credit-card payments.

well, there are various ways to cover yourself if not able to pay. you can also adjust payments to suit yourself

also, while it is possible for a kid to get hold of their parents credit card, those kind of authorised payments have a certain protection

what i am interested to find out is if there is anything to stop a 13-year old with a paypal account from getting himself 4 months use of a shiny, new daw

We have a reputable e-commerce company that handles this...you realize that the issues you are pointing out apply to all online businesses right? I sorta feel like I am getting punked here

but this e-commerce company doesn't run checks ??

most other businesses don't run this 'subscription' model, they just offer one payment upfront. the problem with your model is that there are a whole years worth of possibilities that could force someone to bail...to your advantage

i guess that using the word subscription lets you get away with quite a lot. we all know that the only prize comes after 12 payments, but with subscription (or renting), you can say that the customer is able to cancel anytime. of course, no one will do that because they end up with nothing but having rented some software for a while.

but sometimes life throws curveballs. it sounds like you don't really care if they have the means, or anything after

maybe it is not the law, but it seems very unethical