Polarized opinions about Reaper

[machinesworking]

Routing is extremely powerful in Reaper, it's also not that transparent. I'm looking at the Tracks window in DP9 and it's mapped out for each track exactly where the signal is going, in Reaper you're looking at diving into a few menus to find out what a track is mapped to.

If you enlarge the mixing window docked or undocked by grabbing the top part of the window and dragging then the inserts and sends will appear. You will see all the sends on each track. You can just drag a send "box" to the desired track you want to send too and select pre or post, which output to send and if you want just midi to send or just audio or both. Very flexible. When the mixer is docked down the bottom of the main screen it doesn't show the sends and inserts, kind of like Cubase's docked mixer except instead of having to switch view pages to see the inserts and sends you can just make the window taller.

I was talking about the tracks window, in most DAWs the routing in the mixer section can be hidden or not. DP can be annoying in that it always shows you everything, but in the first stages of set up it's a huge plus to see everything without menu diving. Or, to put it another way, the downside of flexibility is UI glitches, almost every time a powerful piece of software sacrifices UI for features, and the converse is true, software with an easy to grasp UI usually isn't very deep.
I love Live for what it excels at, but simple things like a separate MIDI editor window, or even a key command for the subwindow to open it to full size simply isn't there, but there's zero menu diving when you first create MIDI in the arrangement or session views, simply selecting the MIDI brings up the subwindow. Same with audio, time stretching is flatly transparent, even a six year old would pick up in the warp markers, and looping etc.
Now compare all that to Reaper, it's got great time stretching from what I can tell, but so far I'm not sure how to populate it's version of warp markers into a piece of audio? I'm sure a command exists, but I'm sitting here with some old Apple Loop that's not reporting it's temp to Reaper, and I can't find the key command or menu item to stretch the audio to the selected bars.

It's obvious Reaper is moving at lighting speed to crush every DAW in terms of features and flexibility, but finding things in it isn't easy, flatly the UI sucks, it's thrown together in a way that makes sense only to those who have used the product from the beginning. To be fair this is mostly true of all the DAWs out there, but most aren't as flexible as Reaper, hence they aren't as hard to move around in for the uninitiated. I think if there was any reason beyond fanboyism that people get polarized about Reaper it's this.

I didn't even mention what an ugly screen real estate robbing POS the plug in window is, sure it's useful to see the FX on a track, but again, I'm sure there's a way to get rid of the white side window showing the path, but it's not obvious, so I haven't figured it out yet...

Don't get me wrong, I like the extensibility, but I have to say the initial experience makes my other main DAWs Digital Performer and pre Apple Logic seem like walks in the park, and they both have reputations for being clunky UI wise.

[DrFolder]

I was talking about the tracks window, in most DAWs the routing in the mixer section can be hidden or not. DP can be annoying in that it always shows you everything, but in the first stages of set up it's a huge plus to see everything without menu diving. Or, to put it another way, the downside of flexibility is UI glitches, almost every time a powerful piece of software sacrifices UI for features, and the converse is true, software with an easy to grasp UI usually isn't very deep.
I love Live for what it excels at, but simple things like a separate MIDI editor window, or even a key command for the subwindow to open it to full size simply isn't there, but there's zero menu diving when you first create MIDI in the arrangement or session views, simply selecting the MIDI brings up the subwindow. Same with audio, time stretching is flatly transparent, even a six year old would pick up in the warp markers, and looping etc.
Now compare all that to Reaper, it's got great time stretching from what I can tell, but so far I'm not sure how to populate it's version of warp markers into a piece of audio? I'm sure a command exists, but I'm sitting here with some old Apple Loop that's not reporting it's temp to Reaper, and I can't find the key command or menu item to stretch the audio to the selected bars.

It's obvious Reaper is moving at lighting speed to crush every DAW in terms of features and flexibility, but finding things in it isn't easy, flatly the UI sucks, it's thrown together in a way that makes sense only to those who have used the product from the beginning. To be fair this is mostly true of all the DAWs out there, but most aren't as flexible as Reaper, hence they aren't as hard to move around in for the uninitiated. I think if there was any reason beyond fanboyism that people get polarized about Reaper it's this.

I didn't even mention what an ugly screen real estate robbing POS the plug in window is, sure it's useful to see the FX on a track, but again, I'm sure there's a way to get rid of the white side window showing the path, but it's not obvious, so I haven't figured it out yet...

Don't get me wrong, I like the extensibility, but I have to say the initial experience makes my other main DAWs Digital Performer and pre Apple Logic seem like walks in the park, and they both have reputations for being clunky UI wise.

I instantly thought you meant the mixer, My apologies. For stretch markers just place the locator over the desired location and press shift+w for a stretch marker to be applied, And if you right click and bring up the menu there is a stretch marker section with further options. The feature that has become indispensable for me with Reaper is spectral peaks view for media items, This will show the frequency spectrum directly on the waveform (great for loop work), You can also display spectrograms on the waveform like Samplitude. Spectral editing is also included directly on the waveform if needed. Worth checking out.

[DrFolder]

Now compare all that to Reaper, it's got great time stretching from what I can tell, but so far I'm not sure how to populate it's version of warp markers into a piece of audio? I'm sure a command exists, but I'm sitting here with some old Apple Loop that's not reporting it's temp to Reaper, and I can't find the key command or menu item to stretch the audio to the selected bars.

I'm on windows so I'm not sure of the osx counterpart but if you hold down Alt(win) and place you cursor at the end of the media file a little hand icon will appear and you can just drag the waveform to the desired point in time. I can see your point as I felt the same way with Reaper coming from using Logic for over a decade. The main editing and actions for editing can be done directly on the waveform in Reaper instead of being done in a separate editing window like Logic or Cubase, At first I thought reaper didn't have the functionality .

[DrFolder]

Now compare all that to Reaper, it's got great time stretching from what I can tell, but so far I'm not sure how to populate it's version of warp markers into a piece of audio? I'm sure a command exists, but I'm sitting here with some old Apple Loop that's not reporting it's temp to Reaper, and I can't find the key command or menu item to stretch the audio to the selected bars.

Just to add to how stretch markers work in Reaper, once you have placed the markers at the desired points you can just drag the handles to the place in time you need them. You can snap them to the timeline or freely move them where ever you want.

4.JPG

I mentioned spectral peak views for audio which I find to be a very handy feature.

1.JPG

Also included is spectral editing directly on the waveform.

2.JPG

You can even choose your own colour spectrum if needed.

[inkwarp]

lmao @ jancivil seething..
keep digging mate. you're almost through to china...
you've yet to actually contribute to the OP.

[machinesworking]

Thanks for all the jpgs DrFolder!

It's entirely possible I'm completely in Reaper by the end of this year. This is the brilliance of his CP, especially considering in my opinion the single worst part of Reaper is the UI. For instance I was wondering if Reaper could restrain the MIDI notes to a range, a shortcoming in DP. Well in a video I found showing it required running an action and viola, but that was v4 apparently, so now it's in the input FX list under JS, near all the regular VST and AU's.....

But yeah despite my criticisms I'm impressed with the underlying functionality of Reaper, and once it becomes easier to navigate the oddities of the jumbled together interface I'm probably going to be a convert, or at the very least I'll be a regular user, because at $60 I see no better solution to collaboration than a DAW that costs a night on the town when people have different DAWs. I own Logic, DP and Live. My friends own Cubase, Pro Tools, Reason etc.

[Astromann]

Yep.
Things sometimes can be a little difficult to find.
But regarding the interface, its flexible, no need to navigate a jumbled interface at all.
Once you have found what you are looking for, and lets say you are frustrated looking thru menus or whatever.
All you need to do is open the actions menu for that particular page and do a search for what you are after.
Once you find what you are looking for then you can assign that command easily to an icon on a toolbar or simply to key command, or sometimes a mouse button click, drag, and put it somewhere you feel works for you. Its really that simple, that way you will probably never need to look at a menu again.
You can also clean the menus up if you need to just keep the commands you need within them ...I don't bother myself tho, cause I don't use them.
Using this method, Reaper grows as you grow, I have lot of requirements from a DAW as a composer arranger and Reaper does 99% of everything I need.
No searching or fighting the interface either, cause I set it gradually as time goes by and my approach changes, I simply change it to how I like it, so its my tool.
Just keep updating templates every now and then, or create different templates for different tasks and then Reaper is like owning several DAWS if you want to go down that route
And if there is something new I need and figure I am going to need it a lot, it gets assigned quickly to some icon or toolbar I put where I can easily get it.
Personally I love their approach, but realize its not for everybody....that's cool, we are all individuals with different talents and requirements.
But for me...as much as I love Logic and worked with it for years, I wont be going back.

[dupont]

Astroman is right.

One of the strenght of reaper is you can personalize it to your needs.
I sometimes opens other DAWs and I find them really boring compare to all the shortcuts, toolbars and macros I made in Reaper.

[Heartfeltdawn]

Reaper is fine and all, if you have the time and patience. What it lacks is proper UI and workflow design, some say that's because you can make what you want of it but I disagree, yes you can customize and develop your own workflow but it is not coherent in the way Live, Bitwig, Reason, Studio One, Logic or cubase are. The development has totally ignored UI and workflow, leaving it to the user.

And that is why I love it. It’s cheap, it has some excellent plugins, it’s well supported, it’s rock solid, and it doesn’t look me into a particular way of working.

[machinesworking]

Astroman is right.

One of the strenght of reaper is you can personalize it to your needs.
I sometimes opens other DAWs and I find them really boring compare to all the shortcuts, toolbars and macros I made in Reaper.

UI isn't just about customizability. In terms of that Reaper is the top of the list. If you can program it's as extensible as it gets from what I can tell.

The UI in Reaper is designed for advanced users, so it's perfect once you get to know it. Now when you do not, it's pretty whack. I'm still putzing around in it, reading the manual from beginning to end because I see no other way to really know the program.

An example: I still haven't figured out how to set up a pure MIDI track for my external hardware synths. I'm sure it's not a big deal, but it's not at all intuitive like it is in Live or Digital Performer. The signal flow in those DAWs is right away understood by anyone, and with Reaper since you have universal tracks it's not that straightforward. So far setting the input to the keyboard and I/O to the MIDI port and channel for the hardware synth isn't working. I'm sure later today when I have the time I'll figure it out. [Edit] figured it out, even on a pure MIDI track "monitor input" must be on, even though Reaper shows input signal in with monitor input off....

To be Fair, Logic is also a PITA MIDI wise in terms of how it deals with ports and multiple MIDI inputs. Reaper isn't the only DAW with it's own methods for doing things, and it's obvious once you get over the hurdles it's written really well underneath, but in no way shape or form is it intuitive, it's put together by a developer, not a GUI or UI person. I would love it if it got an overhaul by a UI person, obviously nothing that couldn't be customized by the end user. The thing that drove me away from Logic years ago was Apple making UI mistakes with Logic in terms of how the Mixer interacted with Hide tracks in the Arrangement or tracks window. They decided it was too confusing to allow people to hide things in one and show in the other, which made no sense from a workspace standard, only from a new user might be confused by this standard.

So yeah, I'm not saying UI "improvements" in the lines of Apples tweaks to Logic that made it less powerful for end users, or Live's simple UI. Just stuff like having two places to access the input and output of a track, where in I/O you're getting most of it, but not all of it, since MIDI input at least is controlled in "record options", which are visible in the track itself, yet output is only in the I/O pop up window. So someone coming into Reaper right away is confronted with a seemingly arbitrary separation of church and state compared to other DAWs. Personally I would rather have record options and I/O either right next to each other, or even together, as it stands on the interface record options is to the right of the I/O button, which only makes sense in other languages from a GUI standpoint.

I am converting though, started working with a vocalist on a PC, it's cross platform and cheap, plus it's ridiculously powerful and has a great Push 2 interface written for it that eases the pain of no Raven template.

[Astromann]

I realise you have already figured this out, but just going over some main points with a few extras.

A little app that can help..is MIDI-OX, its free I think from memory.
Anyway plug in your Synth and hit some keys and open MIDI-OX, if you are getting a midi signal
then you will see a bunch of data come into MIDI-OX in realtime.
So you know you are getting a midi input signal.
You don't need to do this, but its a quick way of knowing that your midi synth is transmitting to your computer.
So next open Reaper and select a track and go to the TCP on the left (the Track Inspector) and click
on the input display...usually at the bottom.
You should see about 4 main menus... Input Mono with an arrow to a sub menu, Input Stereo (same), and Input Midi...go the sub menu and you should see your Midi device listed there.
Select it and you should be good to go, make sure you have the track monitoring on, and its helpful to have automatic record arm selected, you can find an action for this command and then assign it to to a button on a toolbar so you simply hit the button if you need Automatic Record Arm when track is selected.
Call the Toolbar Recording Options or whatever, its actually good to have two buttons
1. Set Automatic Record Arm when track selected
2. Set/Clear all tracks automatic record arm (off)
So you can toggle that process easily.
Once you have done this...save a Template...call it whatever...My Keyboards Live Midi and thats it.
The reason for this is it streamlines the whole process next time you do it.
It should be plug in synth to track hit record arm and you are good to go.
Hope this helps

[jonljacobi]

Reaper is a like a steep climb. If you're into climbing, it's great. If you're not, you stand at the bottom, look up, and opt for the lift.

[machinesworking]

Reaper is a like a steep climb. If you're into climbing, it's great. If you're not, you stand at the bottom, look up, and opt for the lift.

I would say this is true at first, but once you know a complex DAW like Reaper in and out, this analogy falls apart. Reaper VS Live for example, at first MIDI in Live is much easier to figure out, but at some point in Live you're stuck with 128 parameters of MIDI for track automation, SysEx is an add on in Max, no polyphonic aftertouch, no MPE support. So you wanted to climb the hill to see the scenery, and opted for the lift, but the lift has tiny tiny windows with big scratches in them.

[Astromann]

@jonljacobi
I would agree with this but as @machinesworking said...this is only at first.
In fact I guess I have gotten a bit lazy of late, because its all set up and using it is
very straightforward and versatile...so I haven't added too many new menus/toolbars/shortcuts etc..
But I will ...when I really need to.
However as @machinesworking said, its smooth once you have done that initial climb, and that can be reasonably painless if you do it bit by bit.
On the other hand I found Logic a bit frustrating like that, you have to more or less do it "their" way,
so the climb is intitally not that hard, but you cant get the flexibility once you have done that, your path is pretty much locked in by the designers, this became even worse when they sold to Apple, all the flexible and cool stuff got hidden, and then they abandoned the PC, so you had to buy a Mac (the worlds most expensive dongle).
Apple is very much like that, its obviously a very popular approach, but on their IOS..like iPads etc..they lock you in to their approach more and more, I find it annoying as I have to use IOS quite a bit.
All good, obviously some people like that...I am just not one of them, but no criticisms of the people that like that approach...horses for courses.

[jonljacobi]

Reaper is a like a steep climb. If you're into climbing, it's great. If you're not, you stand at the bottom, look up, and opt for the lift.

I would say this is true at first, but once you know a complex DAW like Reaper in and out, this analogy falls apart. Reaper VS Live for example, at first MIDI in Live is much easier to figure out, but at some point in Live you're stuck with 128 parameters of MIDI for track automation, SysEx is an add on in Max, no polyphonic aftertouch, no MPE support. So you wanted to climb the hill to see the scenery, and opted for the lift, but the lift has tiny tiny windows with big scratches in them.

"True at first" indeed. Ever heard the phrase "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."?

Comparing to Live is picking low-hanging fruit as it's lacking so much stuff, such as what you mentioned as well as VST 3, comping, etc. I will admit perhaps Reaper's summit is a bit higher than most, but it's also far higher than the average user wants to climb. Therein lies the rub. Put in human terms, it's not very approachable.

Create beginner, intermediate, and advanced menus, then let people theme the dialogs, and watch people line up.

It was actually meant to be funny.