KVR Audio

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:57 pm

BONES wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:57 pm
Harry_HH wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:32 pm Why would the developer keep the presets as a"generic, standard preset library", and not to take out the best of the synth? In who's interest is that?
Professional producers who don't want to wade through dozens of presets no-one will ever be able to use in a song.
Sounds like an other conspiracy theory.
Easily disproved by spending an hour or so with the demo, then? So what's stopping you?
If your sounds are much better, why don't you sell them, or give for free?
Because they are mine. Because I have much better things to do with my time than make presets. Because I have no interest in making presets for its own sake. I'm sure there are other reasons, too.
machinesworking wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:15 pmI kind of love posts like this, the inherent hypocrisy is palatable.
I think you meant "palpable". But its even better than that because his own post is strewn with inaccuracies so while he is trying to sound like the cool voice of reason, he comes across as a clueless idiot. e.g. He refers to Pigments as a "wavetable synth", completely ignoring it's V/A and Granular engines. He also suggests that someone is defending Pigments' preset library. Maybe that's the case in the old part of the thread but I haven't seen anyone suggest anything remotely like that since the thread was resurrected a few days ago. He also ignores the fact that I have posted a demo to demonstrate what I mean and to give some context to adjectives I've used like "huge".

All in all he has missed the mark by a long way.
machinesworking wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:33 pmIt's pretty cool how different they all sound.
Did you painstakingly attempt to set all settings filters etc. to the same places?
No, I grabbed a sound we use in one of our songs and spent 10 minutes making something similar in Pigments, then another 10 minutes making something again in another synth. I wasn't trying to make them sound the same, just make them sound equally "huge" by using as many oscillators as I could. The filters are pretty much wide open on all of them to make it as huge as possible and there is little or no resonance involved. Filters, by their very nature, remove hugeness.
Igro wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:39 pmWavetable synth's sound vs analog synth's sound. This subject pops up now and then. We need a separate topic for this. Please, don't start this rant here.
What are you talking about? Wavetables are just one of three sound engines in Pigments. It is at least as much a V/A or Granular synth as it is a wavetable synth. In the demo I put up I have not used the wavetable engine at all, it's pure V/A. It just sounds a bit wavetablish because I snuck a bit of FM into it. (Let's see if that little tidbit helps anyone.)

Because if the did the analogue engine sounding very different from the wavetable one it would be hard to combine and mix them together.

Igro · Post by **Igro** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:00 pm

highkoo wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:42 pm
BONES wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:53 pm http://www.novakill.com/stuff/FAT_Test.mp3
After one playback through my tv, and careful consideration, I will bet my left pinky that the second one is Pigments.

That (Bones) sample proves nothing. With stereo unison anything can sound fat.

Calenberger · Post by **Calenberger** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:19 pm

highkoo wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 6:42 pm
BONES wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:53 pm http://www.novakill.com/stuff/FAT_Test.mp3
After one playback through my tv, and careful consideration, I will bet my left pinky that the second one is Pigments.

After one playback through my speakers my cat pissed into the flowers...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:44 pm

Igro wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:00 pm That (Bones) sample proves nothing. With stereo unison anything can sound fat.

That's all I was trying to show - that Pigments doesn't have to sound "thin", as EnGee was suggesting.

Since EnGee has been too gutless to try and guess, I have attempted twice to post the answers without success. The first one was probably my fault but I was sure last night's went through.

Anyway, Pigments is the first one, the second is DUNE and the third is Hive. I think the DUNE one sounds best, as you'd expect with double the number of unison oscillators, but I was surprised how little trouble I had getting Pigments to sound pretty close, to the point I can put it into the song the DUNE preset came from and it sounds good. OTOH, I'd need to spend a lot more time getting Hive close, even though it's a synth I know much better. I've always been big on one-page GUIs but I think Hive has gotten too complex to be able to pull it off, where Pigments' GUI strikes a good balance between being able to see what's going on and being usable.

Mushy Mushy · Post by **Mushy Mushy** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:50 pm

Boom! I knew Pigments as soon as I heard it, the other two were guesses TBH.

rj0 · Post by **rj0** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:51 pm

The second one sounded louder.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:11 am

BONES wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:44 pm Anyway, Pigments is the first one, the second is DUNE and the third is Hive. I think the DUNE one sounds best, as you'd expect with double the number of unison oscillators, but I was surprised how little trouble I had getting Pigments to sound pretty close, to the point I can put it into the song the DUNE preset came from and it sounds good. OTOH, I'd need to spend a lot more time getting Hive close, even though it's a synth I know much better. I've always been big on one-page GUIs but I think Hive has gotten too complex to be able to pull it off, where Pigments' GUI strikes a good balance between being able to see what's going on and being usable.

Dune sounds more chorused here, EQ graphs show some interesting things. Both Pigments and Dune have much better low end, where Hive is solidly giving a much wider high end after about 2khz and much more scooped low end.

There's nothing about Pigments sound there that's bad though, the most drastic is definitely Hive, probably due to it's pure wavetable approach, it literally sounds like the mids have been gutted compared.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:35 am

rj0 wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:51 pm The second one sounded louder.

It's slightly louder, not by much.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:06 am

machinesworking wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:11 amThere's nothing about Pigments sound there that's bad though, the most drastic is definitely Hive, probably due to it's pure wavetable approach, it literally sounds like the mids have been gutted compared.

I wasn't using wavetables in Hive, I was using the V/A sawtooth wave, just like the others.

Koldunya · Post by **Koldunya** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:11 am

For $70 I couldn't say no after liking the sounds I heard >_> I only owned Arturia hardware before this XD I haven't had a granular synth since Apple bought Camel Audio (and I have no interest, at all, in owning Logic Pro >_>).

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:32 am

BONES wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:06 am
machinesworking wrote: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:11 amThere's nothing about Pigments sound there that's bad though, the most drastic is definitely Hive, probably due to it's pure wavetable approach, it literally sounds like the mids have been gutted compared.
I wasn't using wavetables in Hive, I was using the V/A sawtooth wave, just like the others.

I think even the VA sawtooth is just a wavetable in Hive, i.e. it's not programmed with 'drift', or as a fluctuating tone, and it's high end isn't cut to mimic old analog hardware like Diva etc. Pretty sure that Pigments and probably Dune as well are doing all those things. I think you can hear that in the gaps sonically that Hive gets with stacked oscillators, that you don't get with the other two. It really sounds gutted in the mids. All just guesses but..

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:00 am

BONES wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:44 pm Anyway, Pigments is the first one.

That was the first thing I thought; clearly less oumph than the other two.

anomandaris1 · Post by **anomandaris1** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:12 am

Through my gaming headphones the first and second sound the same (except the volume), the third one is a completely different timbre, so it's not a fair comparison.

Buckster · Post by **Buckster** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:19 pm

I have to admit I can sort of hear the thin sound comments but I still bought it as I find overall with some tweaking it sounds great and I find the GUI far more intuitive than many of my other synths especially for mapping my expression pedal etc

Cinebient · Post by **Cinebient** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:04 pm

Not sure why Pigments 2 have to be compared with other synths and especially Massive X here. But why not...I own Massive X (as part of Komplete 12) but i would much prefer Pigments 2 since it gives me more unique stuff compared to Massive X like the sample/granular OSC. Also missing in Massive X, microtuning.

Arturia Pigments 2 (Free Update): Now it's Granular