Could someone please explain anti-loop snobbery?

[ATS]

"Well if that's all it takes, anyone could make music! What I do takes so much more effort and of course is better." Yeah, sure, whatever.

Exactly. If more effort equaled brilliant music, KVR would be considered the f**king epicenter of musical genius.

how freaking true! some people here spend 10 hous making one sound, the sad thing is it seems many never complete an actual song.

[whiteanxiety]

True genius lies not in the collection of information, but rather the ability to demonstrate it in a pleasing or tactile fashion.

[ATS]

True genius lies not in the collection of information, but rather the ability to demonstrate it in a pleasing or tactile fashion.

If you just made that up you are a genius!

[eduardo_b]

"Well if that's all it takes, anyone could make music! What I do takes so much more effort and of course is better." Yeah, sure, whatever.

Exactly. If more effort equaled brilliant music, KVR would be considered the f**king epicenter of musical genius.

So, if someone posts a song, everyone raves about it and then the poster says, "yeah, just a bunch of loops looped together," will the reaction be indifference, accolades or hostility in the KVR tradition? Let me see...I wonder...

[DWb]

Apparently some like to dismiss stuff for whatever reason they might have.
-a pre-filter perhaps.

(tosses paint against wall- declares it 'gud')
(tosses notes and loops on piano roll- declares it 'gud')
is there a reason to dismiss a method?
All methods have equal standing. Some people toss better then others.
(it's all in the wrist, kind of.)
then the observer at the time they observe gets to decide whether it's crap or not.

Detractors try very hard to distract observers from observing as it serves the detractors interests using sleight-of-hand.
-don't look there! look here!

limiting interests isn't for me however I've always been amazed at what I think as absolute crap embraced by large audiences.

A lot of people seem to derive absolute rules from an attempt to legitimize their personal tastes. Thus "I don't like hip hop because the vibes and the lyrics don't resonate with me, I value harmonic and melodic development over rhythmic interest and I had a funkterectomy at age seven", while an entirely reasonable position, leaves you a bit open to not being absolutely in the right about the music you dislike being totally devoid of value - far better to come up with an absolute rule to back up your beliefs like "I hate hip hop because it's all sampling other people's tunes, and that's not art it's theft" and then stating it as an axiom.

See also "I don't like manufactured pop bands because they tend to have fairly facile lyrics and I find the arrangements predictable and the tunes rather dull" which is again a fair enough position, getting absolutized into "I hate boy / girlbands because if you want to be a serious artist you have to play your own tunes (unlike talentless hacks like Yehudi Menuin and Bryn Terfel)" with no good justification.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

I always thought it was non-mainstream musicians who played the victims... boy, was I wrong.

[deaf dunderkwac]

I always thought it was non-mainstream musicians who played the victims... boy, was I wrong.

you always have the right to have your opinions.
Nobody likes to be dissed or have their opinions dissed
But dissing an opinion is not the same as dissing the person holding said opinions.

...just saying and all.

cheers!

because it's all for fun and fun for all

[Mac of BIOnighT]

Sure it's for fun That's why I think it's way out of line to say that people like me "absolutize" in order to "justify their tastes" (as if tastes were something one has to justify... )
Actually, we were called "snobs" in the first place (see the title of this thread), so what the heck, let's have some acid flowing, it's even more fun
And by the way, I do not expect all dog lovers to disappear just because I love cats, they can even have sex with their dogs if they want to, I don't care, but if someone asks me why I do not like dogs, I just say it.

[dan_s]

Why dont you like dogs?

[deaf dunderkwac]

Sure it's for fun That's why I think it's way out of line to say that people like me "absolutize" in order to "justify their tastes" (as if tastes were something one has to justify... )
Actually, we were called "snobs" in the first place (see the title of this thread), so what the heck, let's have some acid flowing, it's even more fun
And by the way, I do not expect all dog lovers to disappear just because I love cats, they can even have sex with their dogs if they want to, I don't care, but if someone asks me why I do not like dogs, I just say it.

btw I held similar opinions as you do but I've grown to accept the fact that things change and so can I.

side note
Also, as a lark I made a quick tune out of nothing but loops attempting to defend my position that using loops was a copout.
Turned out to be one of my most popular interwebbie tunes ever, absolutely swamping my bandwidth for 2-3 months with over a 100,000 downloads per month.

So-
I accepted the fact that what I consider to be crap is contrary to most peoples' 'normal' range of acceptance.
I hold my opinions the same way.

[DWb]

I'm only saying that you do that if that's what you do (if you see what I mean). If you just don't like much loop based music that's fine, it's only when people start claiming that there's something about using a loop that makes you intrinsically a less valid artist (or something) that they get onto philosophically unjustifiable ground.

On the flipside I've got friends who will tie themselves in knots trying to prove that guitars are inherently conservative and all indie bands are unwitting tools of the International Kapitalist Konspiracy when what they actually mean is that they're more into dance music, and that gets equally annoying.

To use your animal example, if you don't like dogs because they're dumb and slobbery and you don't like dumb slobbery animals then that's cool. It's just when you start claiming that it's a fundamental part of the point of pets to be not-dumb and not-slobbery and that any dumb slobbery animal isn't a real pet without really being able to justify any of this to anyone that I'll get argumentative.

[Mac of BIOnighT]

You are totally missing my main point, and you know why? Because I forgot to make it.
Anyway, my main point is: why the heck do all loopers need to come up with threads like "Why do you look down on us"? I mean, I never thought - and never will think, probably - of coming up with a thread called "Why don't you like improvisation on sequences in the Berlin School vein", and the reason why I wouldn't is that people who don't like that kind of stuff would tell me why they don't.
Loopers, in the other hand, seem to have this irritating martyr-like thing about wanting people to tell them why they don't like loops, and then play the poor, misunderstood victims when people tell them.
If you don't want to now why people don't like what you do, just don't ask.
I don't want to know, so I don't ask.
Pretty simple, uh?

[dirty oscillators]

i want to know why you don't like dogs too.

[deaf dunderkwac]

You are totally missing my main point, and you know why? Because I forgot to make it.

wtf was I thinking... I forgot!!

[dan_s]

You are totally missing my main point, and you know why? Because I forgot to make it.

so did we really miss it then?

more importantly,

why dont you like dogs?