Steinberg Discontinuing VST2 Support in its products

[Dewdman42]

There is nothing, at present, that Steinberg can do to force existing VST2 license folders to stop distributing products using VST2. They didn't think that far ahead when they did the VST2 licensing and they don't have a way to automatically revoke it. As I understand. Urs is much more knowledgeable on this point and maybe he can comment.

However, the latest VST3 license does have stuff in it where Steinberg can revoke it at any time. And by the way, that means that at some future point its entirely possible that Steinberg would try to say something like "if you want to use VST3, you have to sign the newest VST3 license and that newest VST3 license includes an agreement to cease and desist using VST2". I would not put that past Steinberg at all.... I don't know if there would be lawsuits or not..I think probably people will just comply...

[Erisian]

There is nothing, at present, that Steinberg can do to force existing VST2 license folders to stop distributing products using VST2. They didn't think that far ahead when they did the VST2 licensing and they don't have a way to automatically revoke it. As I understand. Urs is much more knowledgeable on this point and maybe he can comment.

However, the latest VST3 license does have stuff in it where Steinberg can revoke it at any time. And by the way, that means that at some future point its entirely possible that Steinberg would try to say something like "if you want to use VST3, you have to sign the newest VST3 license and that newest VST3 license includes an agreement to cease and desist using VST2". I would not put that past Steinberg at all.... I don't know if there would be lawsuits or not..I think probably people will just comply...

Sssh. Don't give them ideas!

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Sssh. Don't give them ideas!

They literally already tried this.

[zvenx]

Interesting read:


This has already caught my eye:

6. This Agreement neither applies to the development nor the hosting of VST2 Plug-Ins.

and this:

  9 TERM AND TERMINATION
1. The Agreement shall run for an unlimited period.
2. Steinberg is entitled to terminate this Agreement with a 24 months written notice. For the validity of
the termination it shall be sufficient that Steinberg sends the termination to the last known email
address of the Licensee.
3. Steinberg is entitled to terminate this Agreement with a 6 months written notice if Steinberg publishes
a new version of VST Software Developer Kit subject to a separate licensing Agreement.
4. If the Licensee is in breach of any material obligations set out in this Agreement and does not cure
such breach by Steinberg’s demand within 14 days, Steinberg shall be entitled to terminate this
Agreement immediately. In such a case, this license and all the rights granted to the Licensee herein
shall immediately cease.
5. The right to extraordinary termination for good cause shall remain unaffected.
6. For the validity of the termination, it shall be sufficient that Steinberg sends the termination to the last
known email address of the Licensee.
7. Any and all prior VST 3 Plug-In SDK Agreements between Steinberg and the Licensee shall be
automatically terminated by signing this Agreement.

(emphasis mine), as is I am guessing those are the two clauses of concern?
rsp

[Dewdman42]

Sssh. Don't give them ideas!

They literally already tried this.

Did they? What happened? I must have missed that. I don't have a VST2 license, I missed the memo to get grandfathered in, so I haven't really been keeping track...

[Dewdman42]

Interesting read:


This has already caught my eye:

6. This Agreement neither applies to the development nor the hosting of VST2 Plug-Ins.

rsp

in my view that does not preclude anyone from continuing their VST2 development and distribution if they already have an existing VST2 license. Its simply saying that the newer license does not include VST2 in it. Unless the new VST3 license has language that it somehow terminates all pre-existing VST2 license agreements or something of that nature.

[zvenx]

Interesting read:


This has already caught my eye:

6. This Agreement neither applies to the development nor the hosting of VST2 Plug-Ins.

rsp

in my view that does not preclude anyone from continuing their VST2 development and distribution if they already have an existing VST2 license. Its simply saying that the newer license does not include VST2 in it. Unless the new VST3 license has language that it somehow terminates all pre-existing VST2 license agreements or something of that nature.

I read it that way to and no I don't see anything there terminating existing vst2 license agreements.

rsp

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Oh, they are trying. Here is part of an email I was sent.

First of all, that's crazy. The most charitable way I can read this is "we have inside knowledge that Apple will tighten security rules (again) and make it architecturally impossible to use VST2 on future versions of macOS" but that's a ridiculous stretch and they're most likely just posturing to scare people.

Speaking of inside knowledge, though, is it legally okay for you to post that? I hope it's not regarded as confidential communication.

[MirkoVanHauten]

Jeeez, reading the VST3 license agreement I know why CLAP was a good idea. They really can cancel the use of VST3 anytime they want. Would be interesting to see if this could be used to exclude certain free-thinkers from Steinberg hosts

[zvenx]

I know for a fact some plugin EULA's also have a similar clause .. that is terminate whenever they want , at least SB's require written notice.
rsp

[Super Piano Hater 64]

They literally already tried this.

Did they? What happened? I must have missed that. I don't have a VST2 license, I missed the memo to get grandfathered in, so I haven't really been keeping track...

I've talked about it like 20 times in this thread alone.

viewtopic.php?p=8345249#p8345249

Quick summary: In March 2021, they modified the VST3 license so it cancels VST2 licenses. Then they said they'd offer a "grace period" to plugin developers and took out the cancellation clause.

[Dewdman42]

Oh, they are trying. Here is part of an email I was sent.

First of all, that's crazy. The most charitable way I can read this is "we have inside knowledge that Apple will tighten security rules (again) and make it architecturally impossible to use VST2 on future versions of macOS" but that's a ridiculous stretch and they're most likely just posturing to scare people.

I really don't think Apple would limit VST2 use through security measures, unless there is actually some kind of security vulnerability in a more general sense, which Apple was planning to tighten up on already and it happens to affect VST2 plugins in some way. I could see Steinberg having problems with future MacOS security for anything related to KEXT...such as ASIO maybe...but I really doubt it on VST. But hey...who knows...maybe Apple is doing something to plug up some exploitable security hole...which VST2 has been using this whole time..we don't know. If so...that would be an easy way too Steinberg to just say "sorry Charlie", if you wanna make music use VST3.

And also if that is true I hope the CLAP team is listening...because something like that may affect what they are doing too. But there will almost certainly be a solution.....a solution which Steinberg would utterly ignore of course, in order to justify VST3, but that is what would happen.

[Dewdman42]

They literally already tried this.

Did they? What happened? I must have missed that. I don't have a VST2 license, I missed the memo to get grandfathered in, so I haven't really been keeping track...

I've talked about it like 20 times in this thread alone.

Fair enough, I have not read every single post....

Quick summary: In March 2021, they modified the VST3 license so it cancels VST2 licenses. Then they said they'd offer a "grace period" to plugin developers and took out the cancellation clause.

Right, thanks for remembering that...I do recall that now...

But I think its basically what they will do again later once they decide the grace period is over...so it will be RIP for VST2 distribution after that, unless you avoid ever signing any new VST3 license (which means not shipping VST3 plugins)

[zvenx]

Screen Shot 2022-02-05 at 4.11.20 PM.jpg

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/vst-3-sd ... /201638/13


The most recent Agreement which I linked a few posts before doesn't mention a transition period either, they took it out.

Screen Shot 2022-02-05 at 4.16.13 PM.jpg

rsp

[Super Piano Hater 64]

I really don't think Apple would limit VST2 use through security measures, unless there is actually some kind of security vulnerability in a more general sense, which Apple was planning to tighten up on already and it happens to affect VST2 plugins in some way. I could see Steinberg having problems with future MacOS security for anything related to KEXT...such as ASIO maybe...but I really doubt it on VST. But hey...who knows...maybe Apple is doing something to plug up some exploitable security hole...which VST2 has been using this whole time..we don't know. If so...that would be an easy way too Steinberg to just say "sorry Charlie", if you wanna make music use VST3.

And also if that is true I hope the CLAP team is listening...because something like that may affect what they are doing too. But there will almost certainly be a solution.....a solution which Steinberg would utterly ignore of course, in order to justify VST3, but that is what would happen.

I could absolutely see Apple doing something like this. They already introduced out-of-process AUv3 plugins. They could drop AUv2 support on very short notice and make changes to notarization rules (among other things) that effectively remove the option of using in-process plugins of any kind in any (notarized) software. Of course, VST2 would not be the target of such a move. It would just be one of the casualties caught in the blast radius.