Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[John Vulich]

...RTAS only is a pain.

FXpansion has a VST to RTAS adapter.

[blank/diod]

You've seen an online video of a quick demo done on a low res projector by someone who barely knew the product... it's kind of like writing a definitive movie review based on a shaky bootleg excerpt of the trailer.

Oh, come on already! You guys cranked up the hype machine all by your own choice, started teasing people with little dribbles of info, hired an unqualified person to demonstrate the launch of a major new product, gave him a low res projector, probably even leaked those demo videos yourselves (God knows they could have forbidden video taping at the event) and now you have the nerve to complain when people are speculating about the products details? Wasn't this the intended effect, to get people talking? Well, I have some news for you. You're gonna get both good and bad comments in a situation like this.

Life's rough like that sometimes.

John, will you stop it with the "you guys" thing already? I have no idea what's going on with Record marketing any more than you do, and I'm observing this unfolding just like anyone else. I knew the product was coming but I know zip-nada-zero about the marketing stuff on this particular occasion. I am however pretty sure that the "dribbles of info" are not part of some meticulously thought out plan, going by history.

[John Vulich]

The spokeswhatnow? I was barely a spokesperson when I was an employee 11 years ago. If I'm a spokesperson for any company I help out with graphics I guess I'm also a spokesperson for, I dunno, IK Multimedia, but my Italian is horrible so I'd rather not. What's worse I might also be a spokesperson for Ericsson Radio Systems, AstraZeneca medicals, Radiohead, Audi and many others, including the Swedish police!

You seem pretty well informed and spend a lot of your time defending their product. I got the impression you worked for them to help control their online PR. It sure comes across that way. You seem privy to details regarding their new copy protection/dongle system. I would imagine that information such as that would be reserved strictly for the benefit of a select group of trusted insiders.

[kbaccki]

Wasn't this the intended effect, to get people talking?

Viral marketing sounds really cool. Until you find out that the "viral" part of it is a nasty case of Ebola, but it's too late because you're already bleeding out of your eyes and orifices.

[blank/diod]

You seem pretty well informed and spend a lot of your time defending their product. I got the impression you worked for them to help control their online PR. It sure comes across that way.

Heh... lord no. The only ones with some token of online presence are Tage and Leo, and on the ultra rare occasion Ernst. Never seen them online outside the homepage, but they might be lurking.

If I were to hire a PR person I would be looking for someone patient, polite, diplomatic and social, and I'm woefully lacking on all those counts. I stick to producing pixels and occasional noises, that's where I belong.

[minimarx]

the f**ked up thing is - just look how many people know about this company(proppelerhead) and really liked Reason 1 when it came out? they all thought that this will be a great company, visionary people who got it all right first or second time around, and look how they screwed it all up in those upcoming few years ... I mean, Live is getting integration with Max/MSP in ver. 8, they are collaborating with other companies, listening to their costumers and spectators, doing a great job, and prop's are offering audio recording(dongle protected) ??? Live have the easiest side-chain compressing I ever used, in Reason you probably have to connect 20 wires to get it done ... I just can't believe how this company is ruining itself ...

[YUGA]

The Propellerheads' new dongle is mind-bogglingly revolutionary that you can also use it as a 8GB USB flash disk and launch your copy of Re-Cord and Reason from it.


Just a guess...

[Fidelity]

I just can't believe how this company is ruining itself ...

That's the trend these days. Apple with logic, Korg with their marketing strategies (Oasys more than M3, but the m50 was the final nail in that coffin...), NI with maschine (sorry ew ), Tascam with Gigastudio (though Garritan will probably do justice to its legacy), and even EastWest had a brief run-in with play's premature release.

That said, propellerheads seems to have them all beat (with maybe the exception of tascam). They've used stability as an excuse for a while now with reason -- it's a critical issue with live performance, granted, but you can create a seperate version with vst hosting capability without threatening the main product's stability. Let's hope that their DAW is only self-contained for now and is that separate version we've all been waiting for.

[John Vulich]

They've used stability as an excuse for a while now with reason -- it's a critical issue with live performance, granted, but you can create a seperate version with vst hosting capability without threatening the main product's stability.

I'll go one better, just don't use plugins. The ability to host plugins itself doesn't cause instability, just the plugins themselves... theoretically. I think it's been a few years since I can remember a plugin crashing on me. Ableton Live is geared, probably even more so, towards performance, where stability is critical. It hosts plugins and it's own native instruments/effects, and I rarely, if ever, see people complaining about it's stability. It's really just a lame, tired excuse...

[FaX]

the f**ked up thing is - just look how many people know about this company(proppelerhead) and really liked Reason 1 when it came out? they all thought that this will be a great company, visionary people who got it all right first or second time around, and look how they screwed it all up in those upcoming few years ... I mean, Live is getting integration with Max/MSP in ver. 8, they are collaborating with other companies, listening to their costumers and spectators, doing a great job, and prop's are offering audio recording(dongle protected) ??? Live have the easiest side-chain compressing I ever used, in Reason you probably have to connect 20 wires to get it done ... I just can't believe how this company is ruining itself ...

Live - let me see . MAXMSP is NOT an easy system to learn and a large portion of us like to write music and not dick around with coding. Personally, I am of the opinion M4L is going to way be to deep for most people. Enough peeps have trouble getting their head around shit like Reaktor let alone getting into in depth synth programming.

V8 - is hardly stable for most people at the moment working ummmm "LIVE" either.

Lets see if you need a dongle or PACE with M4L before you go spouting off like that.

Oh an if you haven't noticed there is a collaboration with a certain "AMP SIM" company on this product.

It took live ages to get side chain compression (trust me on was onboard @ V2) and over the upgrade costs by version 5 and haven't bought a new version since - hey at least V5 is stable on my PC notebook.
You obviously haven't used the MClass Devices in later versions of Reason either judging by your 20 cable comment.

Reason was a modular environment well before other people had developed such a thing.
The Combinator was essentially pilfered and used in things like Racks in Live IMHO.
Reason is a very good modular music environment that is incredibly stable.
You can run both DEVICE + FX Combi's - Lots of CV/AUDIO/GATE patching with synths being able to be incorporated into the signal flow of an effects device also.

I could see Reason 4, Record, Recycle, Rebirth being quite useful myself.
Now before you go screaming fan boy I use Logic 8, Dim Pro, Alchemy, Automat, Reaktor 5, Live 5 as well as an RS7000, Fusion, WSA1, Prophecy, JP8080, TG33 and an archaic EII+ HD.

I find Reason to always be stable, CPU efficient, portable, reliable and a good place to start ideas at the very least.
I still use NNXT, Redrum, Maelstrom, Thor, Scream, REV7000, B512, MClass devices quite extensively also.
Not to mention Recycle and Rebirth. I started on hardware back in the late 80's and personally like the virtual rack paradigm myself also.

Why people bash the Prop's without knowing everything about the new product is beyond me.
There are loads of things I don't like about other hosts that others on the other hand will love.
Why should i bash a product just because it's not my bag of crisps ?
I could list more than a handful of ways in which I think Ableton have utterly lost the plot myself but I can't see it serving much purpose (price, feature set, focus, stability being the main ones not to mention the cost of individual instruments, upgrade paths, additional bloat and so on and so forth).
See it really doesn't serve any purpose other than making me sound like a whiney old toe rag.
So what's your excuse ?

[aleph75]

Everything is Ok, but then Reason/Record must become a VST Plugin

[kmonkey]

Ive got many daws, VSTs and some hardware...Reason have showed me that the quality and style of my TC effects can be fully emulated in Reason and the sequencer for me work much better than any of my other daws.

If you show me how to emulate TC VSS3 with all it's parameters, spatial sound character, od DVR2 dense sound and nice modulation in tail-both available in TC Powercore (available as VST plug-ins and STABLE) you will be my and 10 000 other people savior

Oh well...

[christ8449]

i dont think Reason is for beginners. From my own personal use, the countless professionals who use it and the fact that everyone who critizes Reason as being amateur, limiting, etc, DOESNT KNOW how to use it, brings my to the obvious answer..

I know very well how to use it. I just don't like being given a limited number of tubes of color to paint a picture. And I'd bet that the pros who use it also use other stuff to get "their" sound. There is no way in hell that Reason is a 100%, "in the box" pro solution no matter what anyone says.

No one is claiming it to be a 100% in the box solution. Everyone I know that uses reason uses it in conjunction with another DAW like Live via rewire. If some people do exclusively use Reason, so what? It's not for you? Quick, sell all Propellerhead stock they're going out of business!

Yeah, the hype youtube video was a bit stupid but it's not like it'll ruin the company. It doesn't change the product. I'll wait until I get a better look at the final product before I make judgment.

If it's better than live at elastic audio, low on CPU, easy to use without being dumbed down then I might grab it.

I laughed at this -

WTF took them so long.

They are going out of business that's why they put audio in there.

Too late I am happy using Live. Props loss.

The sound quality still sucks.

The Reason sequencer still sucks.

No VSTz? lawlz0r teh sux3r

and my favorite.

Props development cycle takes too long. That's why I switch to Ableton/Logic etc. They need to catch up and stay up with the competition, they are being left behind.

[kL]

No offense to anyone, but calling Reason "software for beginners" is simply incorrect.

That's okay; he also called the editing in Pro Tools "sublime."

[daExpert]

I watched both videos and it looks like it should've been called reason 5. They didn't need record and reason to be seperate products, although the instruments of reason do work inside of record.