I really hope so..zvenx wrote:but Reason may provide better prevention against piracy?
no?
rsp
Musikmesse 2012: Propellerhead to share "exciting news"
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- KVRist
- 84 posts since 26 Oct, 2009
People could pirate the VST anyway in that case, you could just stop VST development entirely but it'd be your loss, everyone using Cubase, S1, FL, Reaper etc aren't all switching to Reason(unless you believe everyone is pirating from you...)
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- KVRAF
- 14436 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Planet Earth, Somewhere
just trying to playing devil's advocate, as a former reason user who know only uses Vst's in cubase, nuendo and maschine....I don't see this news as anything positive, and quite frankly it has the potential to be negative for reasons mentioned above.
rsp
rsp
sound sculptist
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
I would have been happier had Reason introduced a rack VST extension that loaded VSTs as is, with a click from the rack opening the plugin's default UI and let you define custom UI controls for within the Reason rack sort of like how Combinator works but more robust. That would have been easiest for developers to only have to create one product, simpler for customers, and allowed any developer to create a fancy interface to help integrate their plugs how they see fit. This seemingly has everything I don't like about a closed system. If you could load any available VST in Reason that would open it up so much and I'd consider using it, but for example I couldn't use the Strum guitars I love if I switched. I could switch to any other host and do so. I would hate to invest in a bunch of Reason modules only to have to be locked in to that system. So it's a no sale for me. I am the opposite of excited about this.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRist
- 187 posts since 16 Aug, 2011
+!braj wrote:I would have been happier had Reason introduced a rack VST extension that loaded VSTs as is, with a click from the rack opening the plugin's default UI and let you define custom UI controls for within the Reason rack sort of like how Combinator works but more robust. That would have been easiest for developers to only have to create one product, simpler for customers, and allowed any developer to create a fancy interface to help integrate their plugs how they see fit. This seemingly has everything I don't like about a closed system. If you could load any available VST in Reason that would open it up so much and I'd consider using it, but for example I couldn't use the Strum guitars I love if I switched. I could switch to any other host and do so. I would hate to invest in a bunch of Reason modules only to have to be locked in to that system. So it's a no sale for me. I am the opposite of excited about this.
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
This is a business decision, not a decision on making Reason better IMO.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRAF
- 4329 posts since 26 Jun, 2004
Oh snap, my 'wild guess' a few pages out was dead effing on. 
I was calling Magnus right out!
Well, Reason will survive...
For the sheltered few out there who are still using only Reason and have abstained from all plugins, this must be like the most insane day EVAR.
Where are you guys?
Are there any of you?
Oh yeah-
Congrats Props!
You are no longer just a strange outdated useless anomaly.
I mean that seriously and in the best way possible.
I was calling Magnus right out!
Well, Reason will survive...
For the sheltered few out there who are still using only Reason and have abstained from all plugins, this must be like the most insane day EVAR.
Where are you guys?
Are there any of you?
Oh yeah-
Congrats Props!
You are no longer just a strange outdated useless anomaly.
I mean that seriously and in the best way possible.
Last edited by highkoo on Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Maybe not a burden, but a distraction? Maybe that is not the case, but if the QA work is increased a lot, a small developer could get very distracted. And the cost of plugins could be increased to cover overhead and pay PH their cut. A VST wrapper would have just allowed all developers to play, this is pay-to-play, no? Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.fceramic wrote:Why would RE be some kind of great burdon to plugin developers? I'm pretty sure Korg, Sugar Bytes, Sonic Charge etc. weren't forced to make RE devices.
Cost of the PH version could also increase the VST cost as well.
15 minutes to implement maybe, but maybe a week or more to QA.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRian
- 1443 posts since 1 Jun, 2008
Well both registering and getting the SDK is free so developers can just check how much extra work it would require. Again, NOBODY is forcing small developers to jump onboard. The whole regulated App Store concept has worked brilliantly for Apple and Valve, with loads of developers of all sizes, so I'm not sure what your concern is.
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- KVRAF
- 3401 posts since 6 Nov, 2006
yep.braj wrote:This is a business decision, not a decision on making Reason better IMO.
i wish they'd just give it midi out already. all those sequencers and routing CV to control midi devices and other software apps.. they could really make it a mindblower.
it would just be so much fun to open reason and tie into a bunch of other things and make it shake hands with things like numerology and and hardware and and and...
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- KVRAF
- 5573 posts since 30 May, 2006 from Hollow Earth
Maybe developers will learn how to be so efficient as reason when it comes to CPU usage by just writing for the PH.
This could also open up "reason only" users awareness to finally understand what they have been missing all these years about VST and perhaps move on to the big DAWs where everything is possible, from freeware to expensive-ware and so much more.
Yes they will have access to VST but in a handicap DAW system, as in reason, combined with the fact of buying more and more VST and not being able to use them anywhere else.... It's crazy man......
This could also open up "reason only" users awareness to finally understand what they have been missing all these years about VST and perhaps move on to the big DAWs where everything is possible, from freeware to expensive-ware and so much more.
Yes they will have access to VST but in a handicap DAW system, as in reason, combined with the fact of buying more and more VST and not being able to use them anywhere else.... It's crazy man......
ABEFLGMOPPRRST 
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- KVRist
- 84 posts since 26 Oct, 2009
There's this too, have to account for the 30% in your price point, and it would look bad if you charged less for the VST version.braj wrote:A VST wrapper would have just allowed all developers to play, this is pay-to-play, no? Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Cost of the PH version could also increase the VST cost as well.
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- KVRer
- 28 posts since 29 Nov, 2011
I see i'm not the only one not excited at all, even scared.
-You get a sort of openness, but in fact it is a close than usual (consider those expansions as refill plugins).
-And there is another downside : when the Props release their own devices, all is finalized.The connections, GUI and sound will not change.
The sound of Subtractor never changed.
What will happen when Racks devs will change CV/Gate connections, change sound engine and other features ?
The same things than with VSTs
-You get a better sound and more choice, but you will loose the usual lower Reason CPU usage, like with any VSTs (try DCAM or ACE and you will see what i mean).
If programmers don't cut the algos to gain CPU and loose sound quality...
The Props just try to hide the main bad side effect of a closed system : you need to do all by yourself.
They realized ppl are asking for more and more features and they just can't follow.
Some freewares do better than their devices...when equivalent device exist.
So they create another not-so-good solution (like Record was) to hide the bad side effect of Reason being a closed system.
Stability and low CPU usage is your only concern ?
Use Reason alone, not Rewired, without the new Racks and/or use Rebirth : it is freeware.
Personally, i stopped using Reason years ago.
And when i see all the stacked non sense solutions they provide, i know it was the right choice.
I may sound harsh, but i really think this is reality : the Props spend their time changing their direction, providing half-backed solutions and this is just not serious.
I can even say every new major Reason release is not what it used to be.
A lot of ppl (like me) are just bored by the Props way of acting...or not.
This is just another non-event trying to convince ppl to use Reason as unique DAW.
-You get a sort of openness, but in fact it is a close than usual (consider those expansions as refill plugins).
-And there is another downside : when the Props release their own devices, all is finalized.The connections, GUI and sound will not change.
The sound of Subtractor never changed.
What will happen when Racks devs will change CV/Gate connections, change sound engine and other features ?
The same things than with VSTs
-You get a better sound and more choice, but you will loose the usual lower Reason CPU usage, like with any VSTs (try DCAM or ACE and you will see what i mean).
If programmers don't cut the algos to gain CPU and loose sound quality...
The Props just try to hide the main bad side effect of a closed system : you need to do all by yourself.
They realized ppl are asking for more and more features and they just can't follow.
Some freewares do better than their devices...when equivalent device exist.
So they create another not-so-good solution (like Record was) to hide the bad side effect of Reason being a closed system.
Stability and low CPU usage is your only concern ?
Use Reason alone, not Rewired, without the new Racks and/or use Rebirth : it is freeware.
Personally, i stopped using Reason years ago.
And when i see all the stacked non sense solutions they provide, i know it was the right choice.
I may sound harsh, but i really think this is reality : the Props spend their time changing their direction, providing half-backed solutions and this is just not serious.
I can even say every new major Reason release is not what it used to be.
A lot of ppl (like me) are just bored by the Props way of acting...or not.
This is just another non-event trying to convince ppl to use Reason as unique DAW.