KVR Audio

mystran · Post by **mystran** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:14 pm

mkdr wrote:Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?

As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.

For implementing them, just look at the currently on-going discussion on the DSP development section of the forum.

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Mon May 21, 2012 3:40 pm

Vadim is from Native Instrument, so where his techno has been implemented, in Massive ?

Z1202 · Post by **Z1202** » Mon May 21, 2012 4:36 pm

mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?
As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.

This is not really correct. There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine

). Even Oppenheim and Schafer mention IIRC (and quickly discard) this possibility. However I believe to have described probably the most full and systematic application of this idea (please correct me, if I'm wrong

).

Edit: that's why I prefer the term TPT (topology-preserving transform). Zero-delay feedback is just one (probably the most important) aspect of it.

Regards,
Vadim

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon May 21, 2012 4:51 pm

mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?
As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.

For implementing them, just look at the currently on-going discussion on the DSP development section of the forum.

There is a Reaktor core tutorial here:

http://www.native-instruments.com/filea ... logyRC.pdf

http://co.native-instruments.com/index. ... tchid=7769

http://co.native-instruments.com/index. ... tchid=7775

Ingo

mystran · Post by **mystran** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:48 pm

Z1202 wrote:
mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?
As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.
This is not really correct. There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine ). Even Oppenheim and Schafer mention IIRC (and quickly discard) this possibility. However I believe to have described probably the most full and systematic application of this idea (please correct me, if I'm wrong ).

Edit: that's why I prefer the term TPT (topology-preserving transform). Zero-delay feedback is just one (probably the most important) aspect of it.

Fair enough. One could argue even wave digital filters are pretty much the same concept. As far as TPT, yes I think it's a better term.

Like I pointed out in the other thread, I think the big deal isn't getting rid of some delays, but instead the fact that you can forget the concept of directional signal flow and treat everything as a bunch of simultaneous differential equations.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Mon May 21, 2012 5:56 pm

Cyforce wrote: Maybe it would be better instead of trying to expand the quality limit more and more and more with new ideas/codes/methods etc, to expand the effectivity?
What we have from synths which sounding superb, but we couldn't use them as we would like to?....

It is not either or... I am glad some developers focus on maximum sound quality. And others are focused elsewhere.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Mon May 21, 2012 7:18 pm

Congratulations to Lotuzia and Urs for making peace

BTW: I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at the tone of Lotuzia's last post!

xh3rv · Post by **xh3rv** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:21 pm

- for you guys

- for me

Nielzie · Post by **Nielzie** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:25 pm

A little too much of a thread derailment perhaps?

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon May 21, 2012 8:32 pm

[Note: xherv's and Nielzie's comments above refer to posts that I have moved.]

Nielzie wrote:A little too much of a thread derailment perhaps?

Not any more. Split. Again.

Since splits aren't working, a warning: Mods do have another method of dealing with such stuff besides locking and splitting threads. Much as I dislike it, next time that kind of garbage happens I will use it. I'll feel bad for doing so, but one more drop in the bucket won't be much of a deal.

Do everyone a favor:

Not my license plate; saw it this morning at the river.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Mon May 21, 2012 9:01 pm

Z1202 wrote:There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine ).

Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Ingo

Cyforce · Post by **Cyforce** » Mon May 21, 2012 10:19 pm

Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine ).
Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Ingo

ZDF

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:42 am

Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine ).
Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Ingo

Z1202 · Post by **Z1202** » Tue May 22, 2012 7:56 am

Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine ).
Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Ingo

I guess that's why TPT is probably a better term

Albert.VST · Post by **Albert.VST** » Tue May 22, 2012 12:33 pm

Ingonator wrote:Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Ingo

And they are absolutely not 0 delay. I would say they are notorious about the delay they cause (and don't ask me how I know).....

Zero Delay Feedback Filter (How to test if your synth has a )- Xils-Lab White Paper -