Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[Rajah]

You'll have to forgive me if this has already been raised ( but 26 pages is not fun). If I was to upgrade from my Sonar Producer 8.5 to Platinum, for a one off payment, (I believe Cakewalk state this as $199 in the UK here this may be £130) for a year. I will be dependent on Cakewalk actually issuing bugfixes within that time period.
My concern is that within the 12 months, not much may come forth from Cakewalk, or a particular problem may not be fixed within the 12 months.
I did not upgrade earlier due to the problems I read about with X1/X2. And only now being addressed with X3.
I could be stuck after 12 months with a buggy product still, and the only recourse is to consider paying for another year, in the hope it would be fixed within that time.

We will be updating the product on a monthly basis. Not just with fixes and improvements but will big ticket features. The idea is that in this more agile development process, we will work on smaller set of features and release them when they are ready. This will make for a better product. Also a smaller set of features multiple times throughout a year will allow users to really learn more about them and use them more effectively instead of getting all those features once every 1 or 2 years.

Ok.. Hello Andrew... Did Cakewalk buy Camel Audio?


Nice update... Will be 'subscribing' when available..

[bluedad]

most other businesses don't run this 'subscription' model, they just offer one payment upfront. the problem with your model is that there are a whole years worth of possibilities that could force someone to bail...to your advantage

that's called 'life'
without having read this whole thing, your arguments about bug fixes having morphed into credit checks is just bizarre..Instead of continuing the argument, please give it a break.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

most other businesses don't run this 'subscription' model, they just offer one payment upfront. the problem with your model is that there are a whole years worth of possibilities that could force someone to bail...to your advantage

that's called 'life'
without having read this whole thing, your arguments about bug fixes having morphed into credit checks is just bizarre..Instead of continuing the argument, please give it a break.

i'd already decided to let it go

however, there was really no morphing. it was just a development on previous points, and not unconnected

[Brando]

most other businesses don't run this 'subscription' model, they just offer one payment upfront. the problem with your model is that there are a whole years worth of possibilities that could force someone to bail...to your advantage

that's called 'life'
without having read this whole thing, your arguments about bug fixes having morphed into credit checks is just bizarre..Instead of continuing the argument, please give it a break.

Incredible isn't it? In a world where Netflix, Satellite radio, Next Issue, mobile phone and Internet services, cable tv, etc are as common place as they are I am shocked that a subscription model is so novel to anyone. Especially when Cake offers a traditional up-front payment model. Somebody's yanking a chain. I just upgraded to Platinum from X3 Producer. I like the new direction. thanks Andrew and the rest of the Cake folks.

[Brando]

most other businesses don't run this 'subscription' model, they just offer one payment upfront. the problem with your model is that there are a whole years worth of possibilities that could force someone to bail...to your advantage

that's called 'life'
without having read this whole thing, your arguments about bug fixes having morphed into credit checks is just bizarre..Instead of continuing the argument, please give it a break.

i'd already decided to let it go

however, there was really no morphing. it was just a development on previous points, and not unconnected

"Already"...........

[Tricky-Loops]

In 10 years everyone of us will have at least 999 subscriptions and we'll need a subscription software to manage all the subscriptions...

Now I'm waiting for the subscription model of the next supermarket...

[SODDI]

Given Gibson's business ethics, I'm surprised anyone would trust them with a subscription model.

Henry gets hungry, that "subscription" goes from $199 to $299 mid-year and if you don't like it, what you paid for is whole lot of nothing.

[LawrenceF]

Incredible isn't it? In a world where Netflix, Satellite radio, Next Issue, mobile phone and Internet services, cable tv, etc are as common place as they are I am shocked that a subscription model is so novel to anyone.

But we who read here regularly obviously knew, just seeing the thread title, that this thread would be "epic".

Steinberg and Cakewalk seem to always have epic threads when they make announcements here. It's cool though. After the grand-pappy of them all, the "The Great Bitwig Cat Thread", they're all really just pretenders to the throne.

Reaper had a few silver medals back in the day though.

[budweiser]

We will be updating the product on a monthly basis.

Means 12 updates a year. Will you make a "end cycle" release that sum all the fixes and improvements released during the year, for re-install purposes ? I gave up reinstalling x1 because of the updates mess...

[Sassafrass]

i guess that using the word subscription lets you get away with quite a lot. we all know that the only prize comes after 12 payments, but with subscription (or renting), you can say that the customer is able to cancel anytime. of course, no one will do that because they end up with nothing but having rented some software for a while.

but sometimes life throws curveballs. it sounds like you don't really care if they have the means, or anything after

maybe it is not the law, but it seems very unethical

Are you familiar with Henry from Gibson? Do some reading on him. Ethics isn't his strong suit.

They're switching to this model in the very hopes that people sign up who can't afford it and end up defaulting after a short while. This way they can bank that cash and not have to provide support for those people. It's a win/win for Cakewalk.

If it was meant to be ethical, you'd be able to "deactivate" your subscription when finances get tight. In the meantime, your copy of Sonar would revert back to demo mode so you couldn't use it. Then when your finances are good again, you could re-activate your subscription at any point and continue from where you left off.

This way if you wanted, you'd pay for 3 months, suspend it for 4 months, then pick up again and you'd be in the 4th month of your subscription. It'd be fair because you wouldn't be able to use your copy of Sonar until you started paying again. But you wouldn't be at the mercy of defaulting and losing your membership status.

But again, this isn't about what's ethical and doing what's best for the customer.

This is about what will stuff Cakewalk's pockets with cash as fast as possible.

[clintmartin]

So if someone buys Sonar agreeing to pay monthly, and then doesn't pay...Cakewalk is unethical? They're not forcing you to buy anything...it's a choice. The best choice is to pay up front. It's always the cheapest way for anything you ever buy.

[Sassafrass]

So if someone buys Sonar agreeing to pay monthly, and then doesn't pay...Cakewalk is unethical?

That's not what I said.

What I said is that their plan is not designed in the best interest of the customer regardless of how many times they try to convince us of that.

If it was in the best interest of the customer, you'd be able to suspend your account if finances got tight and put your subscription on hold. In exchange, your copy of Sonar would revert back to demo mode, same as if you didn't complete the 12 month period. It would reactivate when you started paying again and you could continue your subscription.

At the moment though, it looks like if you stop paying, you lose your place in your subscription and when you can afford to start paying again, you start all over at the beginning of the 12 month period.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but at the moment it looks like that's what the plan is. If so, it should make us even more wary and distrustful of Cakewalk.


Sass

[KBSoundSmith]

So if someone buys Sonar agreeing to pay monthly, and then doesn't pay...Cakewalk is unethical?

That's not what I said.

What I said is that their plan is not designed in the best interest of the customer regardless of how many times they try to convince us of that.

If it was in the best interest of the customer, you'd be able to suspend your account if finances got tight and put your subscription on hold. In exchange, your copy of Sonar would revert back to demo mode, same as if you didn't complete the 12 month period. It would reactivate when you started paying again and you could continue your subscription.

At the moment though, it looks like if you stop paying, you lose your place in your subscription and when you can afford to start paying again, you start all over at the beginning of the 12 month period.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but at the moment it looks like that's what the plan is. If so, it should make us even more wary and distrustful of Cakewalk.


Sass

Or, teach you how to pay your bills...

[flugel45]

So if someone buys Sonar agreeing to pay monthly, and then doesn't pay...Cakewalk is unethical?

That's not what I said.

What I said is that their plan is not designed in the best interest of the customer regardless of how many times they try to convince us of that.

If it was in the best interest of the customer, you'd be able to suspend your account if finances got tight and put your subscription on hold. In exchange, your copy of Sonar would revert back to demo mode, same as if you didn't complete the 12 month period. It would reactivate when you started paying again and you could continue your subscription.

At the moment though, it looks like if you stop paying, you lose your place in your subscription and when you can afford to start paying again, you start all over at the beginning of the 12 month period.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but at the moment it looks like that's what the plan is. If so, it should make us even more wary and distrustful of Cakewalk.


Sass

Or, teach you how to pay your bills...

Please don't feed the troll (Or Sass as he is calling himself).

Joined the forum five minutes ago and has jumped headfirst into the fray.

Bizarre argument indeed. Sass, the other guy was chastised by a mod. You sure you wanna pick up this torch? Just sayin'.

[hibidy]

Even I agree with that.