I quite think so for satin, I'll never know about the other since it's ilok2'ed.Shy wrote:"sound beautifier"
u-he Satin or Slate VTM?
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- KVRAF
- 14738 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
Shy has a point though.
With digital type hardware, it's easier to "emulate". Analog circuity with plain capacitors, resistors, transistors and stuff - this content is getting better and better. Even so far, that it's almost indistinguishable from the actual hardware.
But magnetic tape is still some sort of holy grail to emulate, due to all the factors that are involved. Like, uncontrolled behavior, tape wore, aged tape, motor control (and that's really not just pitch modulation), how a signal is being compressed/distorted while driven too hard (even without a noise reduction system).
I can't speak for large scale tape machines, but I have experience with 2-track, 4-track and of course a ton of consumer type tape. It's getting there, just like console emulations do. But if I had the chance, the money to actually buy and maintain this device, then I'd actually also use a real tape.
Software is just so much more convenient. And the technology in that section (emulation) drastically improved over the course of the last 5-7 years.
IMO Slate is on the right track, U-HE's concept is great (but I miss the "obvious" in your face sound), Roundtone has some interesting ideas (though I don't know off hand if it was ever properly modeled or just "concept based"), Magnetic has some good ideas but is overall dull sounding (ton of EQ is needed). UAD might get towards the STUDER and AMPEX sound, but it's wasting to much CPU power. Waves, nya... I've heard better, but I've also heard worse. ReelBus is a concept design, so is VoS's FerricTDS.
Talk about EQ's, compressors and such - and you can easily find excellent creations/clones, etc. But tape... This is as much debate as actually using a NEVE over a SSL console.
I consider Slate's VTM as good all-around plugin (wish there'd be more machiens though). And U-HE's sandbox concept is excellent to creates "esque" sounds. Who knows what the time might bring and how well both of these two tools evolve.
With digital type hardware, it's easier to "emulate". Analog circuity with plain capacitors, resistors, transistors and stuff - this content is getting better and better. Even so far, that it's almost indistinguishable from the actual hardware.
But magnetic tape is still some sort of holy grail to emulate, due to all the factors that are involved. Like, uncontrolled behavior, tape wore, aged tape, motor control (and that's really not just pitch modulation), how a signal is being compressed/distorted while driven too hard (even without a noise reduction system).
I can't speak for large scale tape machines, but I have experience with 2-track, 4-track and of course a ton of consumer type tape. It's getting there, just like console emulations do. But if I had the chance, the money to actually buy and maintain this device, then I'd actually also use a real tape.
Software is just so much more convenient. And the technology in that section (emulation) drastically improved over the course of the last 5-7 years.
IMO Slate is on the right track, U-HE's concept is great (but I miss the "obvious" in your face sound), Roundtone has some interesting ideas (though I don't know off hand if it was ever properly modeled or just "concept based"), Magnetic has some good ideas but is overall dull sounding (ton of EQ is needed). UAD might get towards the STUDER and AMPEX sound, but it's wasting to much CPU power. Waves, nya... I've heard better, but I've also heard worse. ReelBus is a concept design, so is VoS's FerricTDS.
Talk about EQ's, compressors and such - and you can easily find excellent creations/clones, etc. But tape... This is as much debate as actually using a NEVE over a SSL console.
I consider Slate's VTM as good all-around plugin (wish there'd be more machiens though). And U-HE's sandbox concept is excellent to creates "esque" sounds. Who knows what the time might bring and how well both of these two tools evolve.
Last edited by Compyfox on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 42529 posts since 21 Dec, 2005
You guys and your details.
I plug it in, I either like what it does or I don't. I can put an unmixed dirty song through satin and with virtually no effort can make it sound better.
See how simple that was?
But on a serious note, it's not supposed to be some complicated thing......use it and if you don't think it's cool, then that is 89 bucks you get to save for the next great thing
I plug it in, I either like what it does or I don't. I can put an unmixed dirty song through satin and with virtually no effort can make it sound better.
See how simple that was?
But on a serious note, it's not supposed to be some complicated thing......use it and if you don't think it's cool, then that is 89 bucks you get to save for the next great thing
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- KVRAF
- 14738 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany
I did that, and considering the money I put into it, it's great what I got. So I'm not complaining... er... that much.
But Shy does have a point. Doesn't mean that these plugins are crap though. Learn how to use them, produce something great.
But Shy does have a point. Doesn't mean that these plugins are crap though. Learn how to use them, produce something great.
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- KVRAF
- 2960 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling
Really? Other than bashing the hard work and intentions of at least 3 top notch development teams, what's Shy's actual point?Compyfox wrote:I did that, and considering the money I put into it, it's great what I got. So I'm not complaining... er... that much.
But Shy does have a point. Doesn't mean that these plugins are crap though. Learn how to use them, produce something great.
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- KVRist
- 363 posts since 4 Jul, 2007
URS - has the buffer size bug been fixed yet? I want to get this but can't until this issue is addressed
cheers
cheers
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
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- KVRAF
- 2982 posts since 9 Dec, 2008
Here I was, waiting for someone to finally write an "accurate "review" of this "magnetic tape emulation" bullshit" rather than bullshit reviews of this magnetic tape emulation, when along comes Shy and delivers the goods.
Result!
Result!
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]
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- KVRAF
- 2982 posts since 9 Dec, 2008
Me? Actually I did find Shy's take interesting - my post is slightly tongue in cheek in response to his, er, bluntness, but if you take that away he does make a point, doesn't he?
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- KVRAF
- 2960 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling
He claims the developers are trying to exploit people's ignorance. He also claims they have not tried to emulate tape. Incorrect and at least somewhat slanderous on both parts.TheoM wrote:I've talked to him extensively about it via pm many times this year. He actually does know what he's talking about and has absolutely tons of experience with many type of tape machines. Sometimes maybe he says it a bit harsh,(that's how *I* like it personally but I know many don't) but I will say it the nice way.. And Bill this is precisely what he means, nothing more, nothing less:billcarroll wrote:Really? Other than bashing the hard work and intentions of at least 3 top notch development teams, what's Shy's actual point?Compyfox wrote:I did that, and considering the money I put into it, it's great what I got. So I'm not complaining... er... that much.
But Shy does have a point. Doesn't mean that these plugins are crap though. Learn how to use them, produce something great.
"Whatever this plugin is doing, whether one can find uses for it or even loves it, it doesn't actually sound like tape."
That's it in a nutshell
I begged him to try satin as I value his opinion. He wasn't going to and I said this time he might be surprised as I think uhe was getting closer than the others, and he did for me and I guess was kind of an I told you so moment for him (in a nice way as we are forum mates).
Mind you he also mentioned the distortion is quite nice compared to many of the others, ie not harsh, I think he might have missed this out the previous page but definitely said that via pm, but that even if it can sound nice it doesn't sound like tape.
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- KVRAF
- 2083 posts since 28 Feb, 2011
My evaluation is not unlike Hib's - if it sounds good it is good. I've been recording reel-to-reel for about 50 years, and I think Satin makes my recordings sound a LOT more like tape. A couple of times the other night, I was truly "taken back" unexpectedly. For real, the sound suddenly made me feel like I was listening back on my old deck. And until then, I was highly skeptical, as my previous posts show.
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001