bitwig 2 is here

[CTStump]

The way I read it you pay 399 for version 2 if it is first time and after 12 months 169 for the next 12 months after.

That would mean 169 for the next update if it is released after 12 months expires. If you dont renew till the next version you may miss a critical update, if you do renew you could do in excess of 1 renewal before the full version update(that's 2 years according to this scheme).

I doubt anyone with any sense could jump on board not knowing when that will come(the full version upgrade that is) plus no hot fixes after 12 months if you elect not to renew.

I guess it may be too late to state that in this thread though.

Edit: if they follow the Sonar model they could get rid of versioning altogether which is where everything seems to be heading I'm afraid.

[Daags]

The way I read it you pay 399 for version 2 if it is first time and after 12 months 169 for the next 12 months after.

That would mean 169 for the next update if it is released after 12 months expires. If you dont renew till the next version you may miss a critical update, if you do renew you could do in excess of 1 renewal before the full version update(that's 2 years according to this scheme).

I doubt anyone with any sense could jump on board not knowing when that will come(the full version upgrade that is) plus no hot fixes after 12 months if you elect not to renew.

I guess it may be too late to state that in this thread though.

not at all. the more genuine users who add their 2 cents, the better.

as for the update fee ... it means 169 after 12 months, regardless of version number. assuming you want, or more importantly need to update. because as you rightly point out, they want to charge for bugfixes, stability updates and even the privilege of sending an email about any problems you might be experiencing (which is somewhat laughable, when you look at how their head of support is treating unhappy existing customers over in the bitwig forum [censoring, deleting, and kicking/banning them for 'spamming' their complaints, bug queries and critical remarks])

this would be a toxic enough proposal for nearly any company, with only very few exceptions owing to product maturity and deep industry penetration. but you only need to look at bitwig's track record to see how utterly insane this proposal is ... anyone content to pay 169 a year for bitwig bugfixes should probably better spend it getting their head checked first.

[Daags]

Edit: if they follow the Sonar model they could get rid of versioning altogether which is where everything seems to be heading I'm afraid.

I'm not familiar with the Sonar model, but - taking Bitwig at their word ( ) - they are essentially getting rid of versioning, albeit in a de facto manner. The way they try and spin this proposal (because it's not policy until february, not too late to change their minds) into a 'selling point' is by telling the userbase 'it means we will release new features as & when they are ready, rather than holding them back for a major update' ... taking this at face value, that renders major version numbers moot for all but tracking purposes. every update could be 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 and so on ad infinitum ... or they could literally stay on version 2.xxxxx for the next forty years if they liked .... the proposal now is about time. and as far as I can see, the crux of it is they want to charge people for bugfixes & stability updates - by the year. if they don't abandon the idea outright, i don't foresee any tweaks they might make to the current proposal that will assure the user a (reasonably) bugfixed, stable version of whatever version it is they buy without continually paying what is essentially a subscription fee.

I'd love to be wrong about that.

[murnau]

Glad i didn't jumped on the train and keep enjoying my FL lifetime free updates and my S1 major number paying updates even more now.

[CTStump]

Edit: if they follow the Sonar model they could get rid of versioning altogether which is where everything seems to be heading I'm afraid.

I'm not familiar with the Sonar model, but - taking Bitwig at their word ( ) - they are essentially getting rid of versioning, albeit in a de facto manner. The way they try and spin this proposal (because it's not policy until february, not too late to change their minds) into a 'selling point' is by telling the userbase 'it means we will release new features as & when they are ready, rather than holding them back for a major update' ... taking this at face value, that renders major version numbers moot for all but tracking purposes. every update could be 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 and so on ad infinitum ... or they could literally stay on version 2.xxxxx for the next forty years if they liked .... the proposal now is about time. and as far as I can see, the crux of it is they want to charge people for bugfixes & stability updates - by the year. if they don't abandon the idea outright, i don't foresee any tweaks they might make to the current proposal that will assure the user a (reasonably) bugfixed, stable version of whatever version it is they buy without continually paying what is essentially a subscription fee.

I'd love to be wrong about that.

Thanks for the clarification, that is the Sonar model no version and perpetual subscription. Although Sonar has a monthly payment as an option.

I myself am very leery of these schemes for the very points you have stated along with paying to beta test software. I can undetstand that there will be bugs but they should address them within the Advertised spec's of the current version which you purchase a license for.

Why is it that Windows is the only outfit that provides fixes until the next version(sometimes well beyond that), software developers are always given a pass because of the lack of resoures equal to Microsoft. That to me is really not an excuse.

[popskull]

They have given up on OSX. Not supporting AU was the clue from the start they weren't really serious with OSX.

[Daags]

I can undetstand that there will be bugs but they should address them within the Advertised spec's of the current version which you purchase a license for.

exactly. and when you look at bitwig's track record in this respect, this is no small fundamental thing to simply let slide as you put your hand in your pocket.


bitwig appear to me to be having a major issue delivering this most basic of expectations while keeping their finances in good stead. the 'features as they come' thing is a red herring. this new proposal boils down to bugs/stability issues and needing to charge for fixing them, despite the fact you've already paid for the product as advertised.

imo, ymmv, god bless america.

[David Boura]

I've been in love with Bitwig since it came out, have always been a big supporter, i helped as much as i can, i made ultra-good advertisement around me. I drink, eat, communicate, express myself, transmit some good vibes (i think), sleep, and even spent my last new year with Bitwig. If there was not Diva, i'd be married with Bitwig. Ok just so you know i'm not "upset", or "aggressive", or what you may invent, with a zest of humor.

Oh and i am a legit user, but that doesn't make my opinion minority.

I have my own legitimate reasons to be pissed off today.
It started a few epic days ago with reading the word "V2" in the newsletter, i was scared it'd happen.
Today the 1.3.16 RC1 with cool news for some, and finally the fullscreen and WSOD fixed.
But nothing about my FR, that i won't develop here, it's in the "concise bitwig features" thread, but that asks for so simple things such as hell more colors in the color picker. And others that i'm far to be alone to wait for ages, i even collected others FR with wich i 100% agree they should be in the version 1.
Not an answer on my last issue with the tempo and pre-roll weird bug neither.

So i bumped my FR in the 1.3.16 RC1. They removed it in under 5 minutes because partly "it's long". Yeah it's long. It's never been adressed or even answered. But this is an excuse. Go check all new releases threads, this is nature that you have all sort of comments. Not only academic and wanted reaction from the masses. As a simple example, on the 1.3.14, you have this guy saying "No stuff on Win10 xx.xx", they didn't remove it.

Then i bumped it again on the "concise feature" thread, and then had some sort of trollings from idk and care who/what model/script.

Then i noticed i couldn't post anymore. In short i'm blocked/kicked/banned/punished. I don't know exactly the name of the punishment nor its lenght.

Also, you have to know actually the 1.3.16 RC1 thread has 783 views for 15 answers. Because they remove all the not pleasant comments.

So you reading this, if you want a real view of the picture, already check if the person who's blabla-ing has :

1 - some music around he made
2 - check posts number, alot of new accounts nowadays
3 - happy comment, press next

More seriously, i highly discourage any new incomer to buy Bitwig nowadays for all the bad reasons.

You won't be heard so much, you will find a misery of tutorials around (thank you users to make them), and after a time you'll decipher the circus.

To the moderators: you already deleted some of my posts, you closed my last thread without reason, took me away from the Bitwig forum, treating me like if i was an disrespectful kid. I have nothing (not a word) to be accused of.
I don't care your forum (seriously 0%), as much i'm trading my Bitwig license for vsts.

A bon entendeur, bons vents

[EvilDragon]

And then you wonder why you were banned.

[Numanoid]

So i bumped my FR in the 1.3.16 RC1. They removed it in under 5 minutes because partly "it's long". Yeah it's long. It's never been adressed or even answered. But this is an excuse. Go check all new releases threads, this is nature that you have all sort of comments. Not only academic and wanted reaction from the masses. As a simple example, on the 1.3.14, you have this guy saying "No stuff on Win10 xx.xx", they didn't remove it.

Then i bumped it again on the "concise feature" thread, and then had some sort of trollings from idk and care who/what model/script.

It is annoying, but as "they" can moderate the forum as they see fit, you just gotta play along to "their" rules of conduct.

Not sure if these kind of posts in other forums help your cause, I am thinking you are too hot in the head at the moment and need to take a step back to cool down and think about what you want to accomplish with these kind of rants.

[aMUSEd]

They have given up on OSX. Not supporting AU was the clue from the start they weren't really serious with OSX.

I think between VST2 and VST3 that covers 98% of my plugins - the only ones I can think of that only exist as AU plugins are the ones from Sinevibes and a few older ones like the Michael Norris spectral suite. Anything else?

[David Boura]

So i bumped my FR in the 1.3.16 RC1. They removed it in under 5 minutes because partly "it's long". Yeah it's long. It's never been adressed or even answered. But this is an excuse. Go check all new releases threads, this is nature that you have all sort of comments. Not only academic and wanted reaction from the masses. As a simple example, on the 1.3.14, you have this guy saying "No stuff on Win10 xx.xx", they didn't remove it.

Then i bumped it again on the "concise feature" thread, and then had some sort of trollings from idk and care who/what model/script.

It is annoying, but as "they" can moderate the forum as they see fit, you just gotta play along to "their" rules.

Not sure if these kind of posts in other forums help your cause, I am thinking you are too hot in the head at the moment and need to take a step back to cool down and think about what you want to accomplish with these kind of rants.

I'm not in some random mode, thank you. I'm at least as clever as you.

[Numanoid]

I'm not in some random mode, thank you. I'm at least as clever as you.

No doubt, but what are your strategies to accomplish what you want?

Trying to hurt their business?:

More seriously, i highly discourage any new incomer to buy Bitwig nowadays for all the bad reasons.

[rod_zero]

The only ones hurting their bussines is BW itself with this new model.

[Numanoid]

The only ones hurting their bussines is BW itself with this new model.

So you agree that less is more, that pointing out the totally obvious is quite unecessary.

The best revenge is to live well, and there are many DAWs out there that anybody is free to choose instead.