Bye bye VST2

[gaggle of hermits]

FLstudio: are we chopped liver or something?

Conpletely irrelevant.
As long as neither Cubase nor Logic nor PT will natively support CLAP, it will not exactly gain too much momentum.

nothing like a considered argument with reasoning.

...and that was nothing like a considered argument with reasoning.

[whyterabbyt]

FLstudio: are we chopped liver or something?

Conpletely irrelevant.
As long as neither Cubase nor Logic nor PT will natively support CLAP, it will not exactly gain too much momentum....

Cubase doesnt support AAX or AU, Logic doesn support VST or AAX,ProTools doesnt support VST or AU. Is it the suggestion that the minimum requirement for the necessary momentum is entirely definined by support in one of those specific three DAWs? If so, please explain why, especially since they're not actually the ones with the largest user bases.

[pdxindy]

Well, I agree. I believe with the current market share of the various DAWs and their userbases. Added to the respective and expected trajectories for each DAW's likelihood of increasing their popularity, within the near future. Would suggest that, as long as FL Studio and Ableton both support CLAP (and one of those two already does), then it's pretty much a done deal.

Yup...

Ableton Live and FL Studio by themselves are probably approaching 50% of the DAW market.

[Sascha Franck]

nothing like a considered argument with reasoning.

It wasn't meant as an argument but my opinion.
And apart from some exceptions, this thread stopped to be reasonable several pages ago.

Yet, I stand by my opinion and the past even kinda proves it. Apple says "here's AU, you need it from now on!" and each and every even remotely bigger developer followed suit. Even if it made absolutely no sense, because until this day, nobody has ever sufficiently proven the superiority of AU over VST, not even Apple themselves.
Not exactly the same story here but still sort of similar.

[Sascha Franck]

Cubase doesnt support AAX or AU, Logic doesn support VST or AAX,ProTools doesnt support VST or AU. Is it the suggestion that the minimum requirement for the necessary momentum is entirely definined by support in one of those specific three DAWs? If so, please explain why, especially since they're not actually the ones with the largest user bases.

They're still likely the ones with the largest impact on the industry.

[Sascha Franck]

Ableton Live and FL Studio by themselves are probably approaching 50% of the DAW market.

Do you have any robust numbers to support that statement?

[whyterabbyt]

Cubase doesnt support AAX or AU, Logic doesn support VST or AAX,ProTools doesnt support VST or AU. Is it the suggestion that the minimum requirement for the necessary momentum is entirely definined by support in one of those specific three DAWs? If so, please explain why, especially since they're not actually the ones with the largest user bases.

They're still likely the ones with the largest impact on the industry.

Can you define how, and also which industry you actually specifically mean, as that's a bit open ended to address? Audio industry in general, plugin industry, something else?

[jens]

Cubase doesnt support AAX or AU, Logic doesn support VST or AAX,ProTools doesnt support VST or AU. Is it the suggestion that the minimum requirement for the necessary momentum is entirely definined by support in one of those specific three DAWs? If so, please explain why, especially since they're not actually the ones with the largest user bases.

They're still likely the ones with the largest impact on the industry.

That probably depends on what you mean with "the industry". I have a hunch you mean the studio owners who are struggling for survival as we speak (unless of course they already went the way of the dodo years ago).

[pdxindy]

nobody has ever sufficiently proven the superiority of AU over VST, not even Apple themselves.
Not exactly the same story here but still sort of similar.

AU has no superiority to VST

CLAP on the other hand, does. Both in terms of functionality for users, ease of working with for developers and in being open source and readily customized.

And of course, unlike AU, CLAP works for Macs, PC's and Linux.

[Sascha Franck]

Can you define how, and also which industry you actually specifically mean, as that's a bit open ended to address? Audio industry in general, plugin industry, something else?

"Industry" as in that part of the market still releasing the most amount of commercial things.
Yes, I am aware there's no clear numbers, I am as well aware that this part of the market is on a steady decline and I am as well aware that the biggest market for MI sales is not the top professional segment.
Still, when you look up most "how was this and that successful record produced" stories, it's likely you'll still find one of the "big three" playing an important role.
Yes, many people are using Live and FL, but the final production steps of successful releases still seem to happen in somewhat more traditional DAWs.

[Sascha Franck]

AU has no superiority to VST

I know. And even if it had, we probably wouldn't profit as most developers have to go for feature parity between platforms.

CLAP on the other hand, does. Both in terms of functionality for users, ease of working with for developers and in being open source and readily customized.

I would happily believe in that - just that I can't experience that superiority, unless I was to switch DAWs, which I won't anymore.

And of course, unlike AU, CLAP works for Macs, PC's and Linux.

Which is fantastic. And I'm absoöutely serious.
Really, I'm all for a common "standardized" format. I just don't see this happening any day soon.

[MrJubbly]

Well, I agree. I believe with the current market share of the various DAWs and their userbases. Added to the respective and expected trajectories for each DAW's likelihood of increasing their popularity, within the near future. Would suggest that, as long as FL Studio and Ableton both support CLAP (and one of those two already does), then it's pretty much a done deal.

Yup...

Ableton Live and FL Studio by themselves are probably approaching 50% of the DAW market.

Easily! I'd say that could even be rather a conservative estimate at this point.

Although, you'd struggle to accurately gauge that, here on the KVR forum, as this particular medium, hardly reflects the real-world, actual userbase of all the various DAWs and their userbases, as observed and compared across almost every other social media platform regarding music production.

So, its understandable then, how many longstanding KVR users (perhaps, leaning more towards the older generation), may not think that. Especially those, who predominantly only frequent this forum for many years. They likely wouldn't have realised, just how much more popular Ableton and FL Studio have actually become (than those other DAWs), in more recent times. At least, over this past decade or so.

It's common to find on KVR, users of Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools, vastly overestimating the current popularity of those DAWs with the general public. That's something you'll always see on KVR, even if that isn't observable on the vast majority of other multi-platform and multi-DAW social media & forums.

To be honest, it's probably something the KVR management might want to look at improving in the future, i.e. to focus more on attracting producers from a younger generation to the site, who perhaps, aren't currently too engaged with this particular forum, tending instead, to frequent elsewhere.

KVR may currently come across as being a bit "fuddy-duddy" and perhaps, less relevant to the younger generation than other social media, who knows?

It would be interesting to compare the average ages of users from each music production forum and/or social media platform.

[Sascha Franck]

That probably depends on what you mean with "the industry". I have a hunch you mean the studio owners who are struggling for survival as we speak (unless of course they already went the way of the dodo years ago).

These as well, but not even really.
I have a whole bunch of colleagues and friends working with DAWs in all sort of contexts. And while some of them use Ableton Live for live or "side-work", not one of them is using it to finalize anything. And FL is pretty much as if it didn't even exist in those circles.
I just played a subbing gig last weekend, 8 people. It came to a brief DAW talk. All of them but one would use Logic, the one guy left would mainly use Live and two other guys would use Live in addition to Logic. And that was it.

As said before, I am quite aware that things are vastly different on the hobbyist market. But as long as some poster boys are involved, chances are that not much will change.

[donkey tugger]

Yes, many people are using Live and FL, but the final production steps of successful releases still seem to happen in somewhat more traditional DAWs.

I would speculate that those people, in mixing, mastering and the like, working at this point learned using pro-tools/cubarse etc, so there is a certain level of inertia involved. Whether this remains over time is yet to be seen.

[Sascha Franck]

It's common to find on KVR, users of Cubase, Logic and Pro Tools, vastly overestimating the current popularity of those DAWs with the general public. That's something you'll always see on KVR, even if that isn't observable on the vast majority of other multi-platform and multi-DAW social media & forums.

I'm not very active on KVR anymore, so I can't tell. But on each and every audio related forum I'm on, the majority of folks are still at least not using FL.
Yes, Live seems to have a growing userbase, but in general, in my neck(s) of the woods, the big three (Cubase, Logic, PT) remain the main production DAWs.