Vengeance Producer Suite - AVENGER - 1.8.5 the main thread

[msvs]

I dont think this is optimal. You get much more space in X-Axis, which you do not need at all. What you need is space in Y-Axis, but the gain is minimal, compared to the original position.
The idea from mackicalmutagen is better, according to the Y-Space, but I dont think the upper left corner is where you would expect the modmatrix. (its just a "feeling")


Once the Granular Synthesis is done, we will discuss about that and find a good solution, guys

[EnochLight]

I dont think this is optimal. You get much more space in X-Axis, which you do not need at all. What you need is space in Y-Axis, but the gain is minimal, compared to the original position.
The idea from mackicalmutagen is better, according to the Y-Space, but I dont think the upper left corner is where you would expect the modmatrix. (its just a "feeling")


Once the Granular Synthesis is done, we will discuss about that and find a good solution, guys

Fair enough. Frankly, I feel like the mod matrix's proper place is at the bottom and centered. I feel that Propellerhead nailed it with Parsec:

parsec.jpg

[sircuit]

Can I chip in on larger matrix idea?

- one could relocate the vertical bar which is currently hosting the Matrix ON, +, Matrix reset and Matrix Collapse to the bottom of the Mod Matrix window - the same manner the FX1 section in the right has ON - OUTPUT - Preset List at the bottom.
- then add an "expand" button/toggle (visible, the same way as the output is visible in the FX example above). When pressed, the matrix expands over the entire right column (Amp/Filter/Shaper).

Remixing the same idea, a button with same shape & size as "memory" and "undo" placed over "GER" in "avenger" logo could do the same toggle of mod matrix over the entire right column.

[magickalmutagen]

I prefer the modulation matrix to be displayed on the main screen (slightly larger than shown in the image) for better parameter handling.

From my perspective, the extra width and no gain in height adds little as you can already adjust the values precisely via a double-click or by holding shift to smoothly set one. It does free up being able to see the LFOs at the same time as the matrix, but now you sacrifice simultaneous viewing of any of those main view tabs whilst editing matrix values. Centering it like Parsec does is aesthetically pleasing, but it is not a multi-purpose window for other functionality like in Avenger.

but I dont think the upper left corner is where you would expect the modmatrix. (its just a "feeling")

I too had this thought, but there is no better place to put it if choosing to avoid locating it in the main view / making it expand. Perhaps separating it with a gap between the tabs (like the EQ's tab when you "Open" it in the main view) would help UX-wise when located in the upper-left.

Once the Granular Synthesis is done, we will discuss about that and find a good solution, guys

Didn't mean to get you guys off-topic. One thing at a time sounds good.

[Coockie1176ln]

I prefer the modulation matrix to be displayed on the main screen (slightly larger than shown in the image) for better parameter handling.

From my perspective, the extra width and no gain in height adds little value as you can already adjust the values precisely via a double-click or by holding shift to smoothly set a value. It does free up being able to see the LFOs at the same time as the matrix, but now you sacrifice simultaneous viewing of any of those main view tabs whilst editing matrix values.

Noooo dont put the modulation matrix there! How are we suppose to use the function to drag from the 6 dots to any knob from the other tabs on middle section like step seq, arp, fft etc??? we cant see lfo sure but u are covering a whole other section but i agree its width make no sense if they however dont split it into 2 columns.

[exmatproton]

by; click - drag - tab selection (hovering) - automatic tab selection after x period hovering. Should work

[hvyen]

An idea would be to open/close the Amp, Filter and Shaper sections with a little plus/minus button like a file explorer or group folders in photoshop. Everytime you need more space (vertical axis makes more sense) for the mod matrix, you can close one of the sections for Amp, Filter or shaper or all if you need a lot of space. I don't know if this was already mentioned here.

By the way: Is there any possibility to copy and paste an osc to another osc of a second instance of Avenger? Sometimes I see that the paste button is active when I try to copy and paste an osc from another instance of avenger, but it does not work. Copy and paste does only work in one instance for now. It would be very nice to see this in an update? The advantage would be to copy one or two oscillators and start with them to design a new preset without to rebuild the oscs. I hope you know what I mean.

[Coockie1176ln]

by; click - drag - tab selection (hovering) - automatic tab selection after x period hovering. Should work

thats cluttering workflow. its better as its now, i do wish it was bigger, but bigger with a purpose not just wider and fill no extra use

[babel2]

Wow, can't wait for granular. Take your time to cook it to perfection


Re the mod matrix

its already planned that the mod matrix gets a button to expand/shrink in one of the next updates

As suggested by darksynth, you might want to consider something like in this Photoshop edit:

I really like this idea


... & I agree that it shouldn't be in the center, unless it was in place of the keyboard but that would require a completely different style of matrix interface. darksynth's/magickalmutagen's above idea is much better

When you are tweaking the mod matrix you are unlikely to be cruising through presets (or have any need to see them)

[EnochLight]

It makes absolutely no sense from a workflow perspective to have the mod matrix at the upper left on top. Zero. None.

A mod matrix is pretty much universally the last thing you do in a signal change, hence the reason why you'll often find it at the bottom or at the end. I mean, I'm all for expanding its size so we can see the parameters better, but I can't see the logic in moving it to the top left - especially where the preset browser is!

[exmatproton]

Just leave it the way it is now and add a tab for a big mod display (in the center or bottom part of the ui). That would work for me.

[babel2]

It makes absolutely no sense from a workflow perspective to have the mod matrix at the upper left on top. Zero. None.

A mod matrix is pretty much universally the last thing you do in a signal change, hence the reason why you'll often find it at the bottom or at the end. I mean, I'm all for expanding its size so we can see the parameters better, but I can't see the logic in moving it to the top left - especially where the preset browser is!

It sort of does my head in a bit having the FX on that side but I'm getting used to it. FX are usually the end of the chain (even if they are bussed from within the chain)
The mod matrix is universal to the entire chain - start to finish, so not so much. In my mind it's a utility thing that could comfortably belong in that section. Anyway just my 2c.

These guys have already shown how capable they are at designing an inspiring workflow so I'm sure they will come up with a good decision.

[bibz1st]

Why not have a floating matrix window

[nordickvr]

Just leave it the way it is now and add a tab for a big mod display (in the center or bottom part of the ui). That would work for me.

+1

[EnochLight]

These guys have already shown how capable they are at designing an inspiring workflow so I'm sure they will come up with a good decision.

It might be my bias from working in Reason where workflow is much easier IMHO, or from VST that have traditionally larger GUI/UX, but I've never found Avenger particularly inspiring as far as workflow is concerned. But that might be because it's so overwhelmingly powerful, and has so much packed into a small space.

It's just that the vast majority of the menus tabs and subtext are almost microscopic to look at. And this isn't a slight against the folks at Vengeance Sound or Keilwerth Audio... it's just that it's clearly challenging to make this all work within a limited space on-screen.

Just my 2 cents...