Diva Vs. Real Analog

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mcnoone wrote:
dsynth27 wrote: "nonpartisans" have made the most honest statements in this endless debate. It depends on the situation, cost, what your track needs etc.
Real analog sounds absolutely terrific and is incredibly fun to use.
There are also many softsynths that also fit this description.
If you want a Moog sound in your track it is usually best to use a real Moog synth. If you want the DSI, Nord, Access, etc. sound it would probably be best to use the real synths. Obscure or not if I hear it and am composing and making music that is ultimately what will affect the quality of the music itself. It is true that all listeners will not be able to hear the difference but I am sure we all (as we can all tell from the terrific support from Diva fans) are inspired by the tools that we use to create with!
Totally agree. It also depends on ones personal preferences of sounds.
I "prefer" digital sounds myself, and it just comes to an each there own kinda thing.
It also really comes down to, for me anyway, what I can afford, and use, as you stated.
As someone who is strictly into the sound design aspect of synths, digital synths have a lot more variety in the tonal landscape for it, and "can be" more difficult to program.
As Urs said before that Diva was a good starter synth for programming. As it's much easier to dial in a sound, or learn-master the synth quickly.
More quickly than Zebra for instance.

btw...I don't think pdxindy was being all too serious in his post there.
I'm pretty sure he prefers digital synths though.
I really don't care about the analog vs digital argument as such... I enjoy the irony of the skewed perspective and I enjoy watching the progress and benefiting from it. I've watched the same argument over film for years and digital has won for all practical purposes. My inexpensive point and shoot camera is as or more capable than the $10,000 worth of camera equipment I used to drag around. There is a point at which my skills are not impeded by the equipment and I can make great photos in a variety of circumstances when the image quality argument becomes moot. I can sell photos to clients shot with an inexpensive digital camera that stands the test of the experienced eye and satisfies the client and the photographer. At that point any difference in absolute quality is a tiny noise floor compared to the value of the actual content. As for shooting the content, digital far surpasses film cameras for on the ground practical usefulness. I used to carry multiple cameras with different film speeds for different lighting conditions, now 1 camera can shoot in extreme conditions with a quality one could only fantasize about before.

Digital synth recreations are a bit behind digital cameras in relation to their analog counterparts but the writing is on the wall. Diva is very close to a Minimoog soundwise, but has vastly more capability. And frankly, though I can still hear some audio advantages to the analog version, I also hear some audio advantages to the digital recreation. The later are increasing and the former are decreasing. I have no vested interest in that trend. I just point it out and also point out that the ground that the analog defenders are protecting is getting smaller and smaller. That is not a criticism of anyone who likes to use analog, but the difference is becoming a lower and lower noise floor.

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I think whatever gets your point across musically is generally what most people care about.

Most non-musicians could really give 2 shits less if you use a real analog or not. If it sounds great why not use it?

ON the other hand, that small 14% of your listeners that do want you to use something that sounds like a real analog synthesizer, need to quit doing A\B comparisons and get a life.

Just my two cents..

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[DELETED]

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mcnoone wrote:It really doesn't matter what analog purists say.
The important thing is that Diva is a big step in the right direction.
If there is a gap between analogue and Diva, I don't hear it, but then I don't have access to real analogue synths outside of samples and songs.
It does sound better than any samples I have, and it does do a good luckyman.
That's enough for me, and I believe most people, who won't be buying a real minimoog,ms20,jupiter this year.
If I was rich, I might buy those, ...
Well said. I wouldn't buy these ancient boxes of glory if I would have the money as a leftover. Their disadvantages are too big for me. Diva: poly, total recall, several instances at once, etc, etc.

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ttoz wrote:
Shy wrote:
goldenanalog wrote:IMO: We are coming down to the wire, Shy. DIVA could almost universally be called a superb software rendition of a analog synthesizer. So: Where do we go from here?
I disagree. Even the ancient Nord Lead sounds better than it.
what synth do you consider worthy in the plug in world, if ANY???

cause you said shitty nord lead so i presume you think diva sounds even shitti-ER.

I am in shock i must admit!
You sound like such a know-nothing, tin-eared idiot. If you can't appreciate the sound and usability of the Nord Lead, then you shouldn't be posting comments in a forum like this.

Sure, the Nord doesn't sound convincingly "analog," but it has its own unique sound and personality (and great UI) that is more interesting than Diva in a lot of ways. But they're both great.

Go away and let the big boys have their discussion.
Virus TI keyboard, Pro One, Nord Rack, Nord Rack 3, Prophet '08 rack, D-550, Matrix-1000, MKS-50, MicroWave, Pulse, TX81Z, DP/4, SRV-330, Logic 9

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Twiddle Tweak wrote: You sound like such a know-nothing, tin-eared idiot. If you can't appreciate the sound and usability of the Nord Lead, then you shouldn't be posting comments in a forum like this.

Sure, the Nord doesn't sound convincingly "analog," but it has its own unique sound and personality (and great UI) that is more interesting than Diva in a lot of ways. But they're both great.
I had both a Nord Lead 2X and a Nord Modular G2 Engine back in 2004/2005. Sold those after short time as the sound was cold and not even close to analog IMO.
At that time i had a Virus C, a Waldorf Q and a few real analogs to compare.
To be honest i was never really interested in a Nord synth after that time.
In terms of features, sound and price the Blofeld blows them out of the water anyway, IMO of course.


PS:
As you seem to be a new KVR member (based on your profile) it would be nice if you could avoid phrases like e.g. "tin-eared idiot", especially when talking to long-time KVR members. Just a small hint.


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:36 pm, edited 16 times in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
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ttoz wrote:
this even happened to me with the Synthix demo doing them side by side (i am so sorry Lotuzia and Xils you are great people but this is my opinion).

funny thing is, Synthix sounds GREAT and has some gorgeous patches, i especially love the pads which do sound quite analog, but in the other domains diva just seems to whip it.

No offence and don't worry, ttoz, hopefully I'm living in a country where you can freely share your opinions and thoughts without being arrested.
I know that music, sound, is a mater of taste and is by definition subjective.
When I worked on mpeg coding at Digigram (mpeg2 at this time), I organized a lot of blind tests with all the workers to evaluate different algorithms. I was surprised that a lot of them didn't make any different between the raw samples and the coded one, but more surprised was that a lot of them were preferring some algorithms that I didn't like, thinking they provided more artefacts.

I learned a lot from these experiences, discovered that there is no facts in audio. There are facts in physics, in digital signal processing, but with our ears, there are no absolute statements: Some people like this algorithm, some other this one,some even were preferring coded samples over raw samples and some don't like coding, wanting only listen to raw files.

So what is important for all of us is how we like or not an instrument, how we can use or not the instrument in our music, how or not this instrument is inspiring us. People can share advises, thoughts, statements, there are no facts, only us can know what fit with our tastes, our musics, our inspirations.

Best regards
Xavier

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chacka wrote:


Well said. I wouldn't buy these ancient boxes of glory if I would have the money as a leftover. Their disadvantages are too big for me. Diva: poly, total recall, several instances at once, etc, etc.
Well, with all due respect,

This argument seems completely irreleavnt to me : It can be said from every soft synth made since 15 years.

Btw who needs several Stadivarius instances in a track ? Or several Gibson ? We just need one who behaves the way it is intended to.

If I want to record 50 tracks of my Odyssey, or my Juno 60 ( Polyphony ) I can do it at once in any Daw ( even freeware ones )

Good music and good synths are not 2012. Its been there for a while
Last edited by Lotuzia on Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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Lotuzia wrote:
chacka wrote:
Well said. I wouldn't buy these ancient boxes of glory if I would have the money as a leftover. Their disadvantages are too big for me. Diva: poly, total recall, several instances at once, etc, etc.
This argument seems completely irreleavnt to me : It can be said from every soft synth made since 15 years.

Btw who needs several Stadivarius instances in a track ? Or several Gibson ? We just need one who behaves the way it is intended to.
Yeah, you right. The only thing I like to do on Diva is bass, bought it for that purpose. Actually 2 layers, so I need 2 diva in project.

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ttoz wrote:i must say, and i do mean this, that every time i load diva, and then load any other soft synth, as far as warmth and straight our PHAT goes, they feel "thin"

this even happened to me with the Synthix demo doing them side by side (i am so sorry Lotuzia and Xils you are great people but this is my opinion).

funny thing is, Synthix sounds GREAT and has some gorgeous patches, i especially love the pads which do sound quite analog, but in the other domains diva just seems to whip it.

.
Thanks Theo, the Synthix sounds the way it is expected to. Different and unique. And it will stand in any mix. At the end of the day this is what -imho - is important : Will a synth stand in a mix, or ..... less. Many synths can do this. Maybe not SO many synths.

Fran
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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Lotuzia wrote:Maybe not SO many synths.
True. That's why Amazona.de invented a new award category for Diva. 3 stars weren't enough anymore. We got 4.

And how about we spam your delay threads with Filterscape? Does the same thing, doesn't it?

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Urs wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:Maybe not SO many synths.
True. ....

And how about we spam your delay threads with Filterscape? Does the same thing, doesn't it?
Gald to see you agree with me.

Who is "we" btw ?

If its you, then I've seen you in some Xils-Lab threads. As I've seen you commenting Xils-Lab in your own forum ( not in the best way shall I say ) without even answering. As I've seen you appearing in other threads ( Arturia, Opx ) etc etc.

The Synthix has been mentioned in this thread by a poster, so I think its perfectly understandable that I give some information on it.

Fyi there's is a possibility to search Kvr forums by Keywords, and thats this awsome tool I'm using to see if Synthix or other synths/subjects I'm interested in, has been mentioned here or there.

Feel free to express yourself in whatever thread you want with your delay. ( Iirc nobody has mentioned it in our delay thread though ... :shrug: ) Afaik also we never made such a comment when you popped up in a Xils-Lab thread, did we ?
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there

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Edit: No need to get rude here.

But Lotuzia: Please stop this kind of passive aggressive marketing. It will get you nowhere. It seriously annoys many people here. And that's not a good way to sell products. People will recognize good products by themselves.

Cheers
Dennis

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Personally i don't really get that whole discussion. I got both Diva and Synthix and both are great sounding synths. Besides that they are significantly different. Sometimes I'm a fan of 1:1 comparisons but so far i did not have the idea to do a 1:1 comparison of Diva and Synthix.

BTW this thread seemed to have "derailed" from a "Diva vs real analog" (which was an interesting idea IMO) to a "Diva vs anything" comparison.
Is my own example from the beginning the only comparison with a real analog so far? after checking this thread again it looks that way. It would have been nice to see someone post a 1:1 comparison with e.g. a Minimmog, a Jupiter 8, Jupiter 6, Juno 60 or a MS-20 or would that be a kind of "spamming"? :wink:


Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner
Win 10 Home 64-bit / mobile i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM //
Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2021 // NI Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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Lotuzia wrote:"we"
Howie, Clemens, me. Hans doesn't post here.

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