Introducing the new SONAR: New lineup, new features, plus membership

[Burillo]

Financiers love subscription models, because they result in higheruser costs = revenues. If you look at current subscription models such as Microsoft's or Adobe's, then it becomes apparent that once your subscription runs out, major functionality of the software, as well as updates obviously, cease. Cakewalk may or may no be headed in that direction, but I too regard the subscription model as only a bad rather than a good thing. I'm not sure...what are the benefits?

that's not what Cakewalk does with subscription though. it's essentially "use now, pay monthly until you paid in full, then you own it".

[chroma]

about the bugfix: it's probably the wrong way to look at it.

imagine that you filed a bug on sonar X2, and then when X3 was released, it had new features AND your bugfix. you wouldn't expect a free X3. the features and the bugfixes are all together (for all you know, the bugfix required some major rewriting which is like a new feature... hard to tell as an end user).

the subscription model is really like a new version coming out every month (or at least, more often than once a year; maybe every 3 months or so is more realistic). each month's version contains a mix of new features, content updates, and bugfixes. you get the upgrade if you're subscribed. if you've been subscribed for at least 12 months, you get to keep that version forever.

So, if you've subscribed for 1year+3months, you shouldn't think of that as the '2016 version + 3 months of bugfixes/new features', you should think of it as the '2016.March' version that you now own. If you subscribe for another month, you'll now own the '2016.April' version. etc. If you don't subscribe the next month, everyone else will have access to the '2016.May' version, but you'll continue to own '2016.April'. If you subscribe again in October, then you'll have access to '2016.October', but you'll still only own '2016.April' until the 12 months is done. If you've only subscribed for 6 months, you don't own anything when you drop.

It's an interesting model, a mix of the Adobe, Puremagnetik, and rent-to-own, and sounds like there are still some wrinkles to work out (i subscribed for 3 years and then missed a month.. you mean I have to go another year before I actually own the latest version again?), which i expect customer service to be given some leeway there (honestly, if you've already subscribed for 3 years, you'll probably continue to again, as long as customer service doesn't piss you off).

One thing that would help is upgrading isn't a full reinstall... i mean, managing all those different installers will be a pain for the backend (I own 2016.April, so when I download it, that's what I should get, but he only owns 2016.January, so he should get that as a download, etc). Would be easier to just have a single install, with a more complex license system that knows that for '2016.January' these 4 features weren't unlocked yet, but in '2016.April' 3 of them were, and in '2016.October' everything is there. The 2016.January version would get all the bug fixes all the way to 2016.October too, since it's just disabling features.

In short: We'll need to see how they've actually set it up.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

if you are really interested, then 'pm' me. i am not risking getting banned for my opinion in this matter

stating your opinion isn't a bannable offense as far as i know. it's a simple question, really. i can't understand why is it so hard to provide an answer, if your opinion is really based on something grounded in reality.

i actually wrote my answers this morning, with a clearer head (was not a great day for me yesterday). i then deleted it because i realised that no one has any slight interest in what i am trying (though, clearly stumbling) to get across.

i felt a bit of heat around my collar, yesterday, in a way that seemed that someone had complained. i'm not fearing a banning, and cowering from giving my opinion, but nor do i need my opinion validated

i am usually very careful around here to choose my battles wisely, on any other day, this thread would never have made the grade

i still see some flaws in this scenario. that no one else does is not really that important in the long run. only time will tell how it plays out. my wish for it to not work out (at least in the manner presented) has nothing to do with any vendetta agains cakewalk, rather that i don't wish to see the same kind of scenario rolled out through the whole industry

as for your answers ?? they are there, albeit through disparate posts. if it is not clear, and you have even the slightest interest other then to bait me into wasting even more time, then 'pm' me. otherwise, have a great day

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

@el-bo, I think your bugfix model would be good, but it´s impossible. I´m not sure if you are seeing the big picture: Cakewalk would have to re-think and change their systems and hire a lot of people to rewrite probably the whole Sonar to work the way you describe.

yes. it took a while to realise the impracticalities of what i was suggesting. it is not viable, but i still feel strongly that people who end up having to default through no fault of their own should be left with nothing

that's it for me

[Burillo]

...

as for your answers ?? they are there, albeit through disparate posts. if it is not clear, and you have even the slightest interest other then to bait me into wasting even more time, then 'pm' me. otherwise, have a great day

okay. you insist on not having any bad intentions while presuming i do have them (namely, i'm trying to "bait you into wasting even more time"). so the thought of you not being able to clearly explain what you mean doesn't even cross your mind? it must be me who is at fault?

well then allow me to retort. i am having a discussion. it's that simple. i am interested in what you have to say. or rather, i think what you have to say is bullshit, and i'm calling you out on it. so since you don't quit the discussion, i keep questioning you until you provide me with a clear answer (which will prove that i'm wrong in thinking that what you're saying is bullshit), or admit that you don't have any (which will prove that i'm right) - either outcome will satisfy my curiosity, although the latter would be less than fulfilling, because it means i haven't learned anything new today.

yes. it took a while to realise the impracticalities of what i was suggesting. it is not viable

so my goal was successful then - i (or others) have finally persuaded you that, with this model, there is no other way. so we can finally drop this "bugfix" thing and you can admit that the only argument you have is that you're simply against the concept of financing?

but i still feel strongly that people who end up having to default through no fault of their own should be left with nothing

how is lack of planning "no fault of their own"? i'm sorry, but there's no fraud going on here. Cakewalk clearly states the terms, so if you can't keep up your end of the deal, how is that Cakewalk's problem and Cakewalk's responsibility to fix?

[sonicpowa]

@el-bo, I think your bugfix model would be good, but it´s impossible. I´m not sure if you are seeing the big picture: Cakewalk would have to re-think and change their systems and hire a lot of people to rewrite probably the whole Sonar to work the way you describe.

yes. it took a while to realise the impracticalities of what i was suggesting. it is not viable, but i still feel strongly that people who end up having to default through no fault of their own should be left with nothing

that's it for me

It would have been almost funny though: "We have finally fixed the long-standing bug you reported and because you have our "bug fixes for every version" delivery option you can download the fix for your Sonar8. Unfortunately it is totally messing up the GUI and it breaks up MIDI, but the fix itself is working great."

[daExpert]

Is this thread going to surpass the alchemy thread in posts, pages, and views? I highly doubt it.

[chokehold]

Is this thread going to surpass the alchemy thread in posts, pages, and views? I highly doubt it.

You could pay me $30 per post, and with your 12th payment you will own all my comments but I will no longer reply to your messages.

[EnGee]

Is this thread going to surpass the alchemy thread in posts, pages, and views? I highly doubt it.

You could pay me $30 per post, and with your 12th payment you will own all my comments but I will no longer reply to your messages.

Or he could pay you $300 and have all your posts from 17/01/2015 to 17/01/2016.

[riley4reason]

I wonder if they will start to allow license transfers? Europe was right to make it illegal to not allow transfers. It's worse than say, buying a guitar and gibson saying, no you can't sell it. Because you would have a guitar to play. Cakewalk could go out of business (for real) and eventually your software won't work and your stuck with nothing.

US needs to make it illegal too, consumers are getting screwed by No License Transfer policies.
Is this off topic? (runs off quickly)

[lfm]

I wonder if they will start to allow license transfers? Europe was right to make it illegal to not allow transfers. It's worse than say, buying a guitar and gibson saying, no you can't sell it. Because you would have a guitar to play. Cakewalk could go out of business (for real) and eventually your software won't work and your stuck with nothing.

US needs to make it illegal too, consumers are getting screwed by No License Transfer policies.
Is this off topic? (runs off quickly)

Immaterial properties like software is very different since it's easy to duplicate - and that is main reason not to allow transfer unless you can control that.

Paperlifters and politicians don't really get how different it is saying this is like any other consumer product. Even now you cannot have the cover broken to anything that is to be with normal return policies for software. Enforcing this would kill of the industry to a large degree.

Gibson, yes, China made some copies that even had Gibson logo on heastock - but I think that is quite different - since it's a factory and lot's of things involved to produce a guitar. Gibson also introduced the authenticy certificate - that never can be allowed to be produced without legal penalties - even i China.

Many software vendors go towards hardware, like Arturia, for the reason that physical stuff is not that easy to duplicate.

Cake has always had a good policy with just serial numbers. I think most stuff with hardware locks allow transfer - and stick to those products if selling off is mandatory.

Exactly how they are going to pull off the trick with rental and not perpetual licenses we haven't seen yet. Maybe something new with expiring licenses or something that makes transfer possible too.

[Gonga]

I think they will follow the major players and the updates will be through an online updating applet. I have always liked their serial number approach (a real dinosaur) and the fact that they are not overly expensive.

I am a long-time user, and still upgraded to X3 even though I no longer use SONAR, mainly because I need to be able to maintain access to all my old tunes. I found that Cubase did things that SONAR didn't, and did other things better that were really important to me. However, SONAR is a great program with a really great interface and I hope they manage to stay alive. And I wish they would fix the U-He text bug that have been around for years!

[LawrenceF]

We'll see how this all shakes out over the next few years.

Somewhere there's a guy who'll just pay the $200 a year and make $5k a year using it to run sessions for random people or friends and not think more than a nanosecond about any of it. Of course, there's also another guy who will view it all much differently for his own completely different and also legit reasons. The net discussions tend to favor the most vocal of any particular group, makes it always seem like that's maybe the majority opinion when sometimes it's not.

Only time will tell if this new model will be (more) successful for Cakewalk or not. We'll see in a few years.

In general, audio forums really don't have a good historical record for predicting the future, if they did, PT would have been gone long ago.

[BBFG#]

It is, perhaps a more 'honest' model, since it seems they are always giving a price on upgrades anyway. Usually with an implication of it actually meeting the requests, needs and fixes so obviously left out of the previous version. So in checking it out (and I was at the point of being done with them and looking at other DAW's)... looking at the differences, is not that many, but a couple of been asked for the last two versions. Hmm. not a whole lot is added, but granted what is added has been needed for awhile.

So it comes down to the 'extras' for me. And at least for the 'intro-upgrade' price you get the AD2 bundle thrown in, which makes it worth it? Except that XLN installers have been not to my liking now for months. Still contemplating this new tact of theirs.

[glokraw]

Last I looked, XLN installer had become an arcade game, with a troublesome boss