MTurboReverb preset making action, let's make the ultimate reverb! ;)

[Sampleconstruct]

Processing a piano improvisation with Melda MTurboReverb using a custom preset.

[MeldaProduction]

[Chandlerhimself]

Processing a piano improvisation with Melda MTurboReverb using a custom preset.

Nice. The modulation sounds really good.

[Rumi]

I've only read some pages of this thread so far, but would like to ask a question. I happened to test a lot of reverbs in recent weeks. Testing most of the ITB reverbs currently available was a sobbering experience, and actually almost depressing, with the MTurboReverb standing out as a as a great surprise (EAReverb has good depth, the new VSR S24 reverb from Relab seems to be really good, Pro-R can be handy, though in a rather unexciting way, Valhalla, Acon, SparkReverb, IRCAM, EW Spaces, 2c Breeze/Aether/B2 etc. can be useful - but none of them is breathtaking and organic and deep like good hardware - and maybe this new reverb from Vojtech, and maybe the VSR S24).

Reading this thread, I got the impression that most of you are only discussing ITB reverbs. Is this true?

Does anyone still know and use the good hardware reverbs? TC System 6000 in VSS6, Sony DRE-S777, Kurzweil KSP-8, Bricasti M7, Yamaha SPX2000, Quantecs, Zoom 9200, Roland R-880, Lexicon 480L, 300, 200, 70 etc., EMTs, heck even the Behringer V-Verb smokes most ITB reverbs. Or do you only know them from IRs (which are often rather pale sounding in comparison)?

As an example, I had always thought of the B2 as "good for epic". Recently, I created a really breathtaking "epic" reverb for a Dobro in about 5 minutes with the TC 6000, the Sony DRE-S777, and I guess some Yamaha SPX2000 or Kurzweil KSP-8. I then opened the B2, and fiddled around for about 15 minutes, and the contrast to hardware was really disappointing. A flat and muddy nervous bubbling. It was muted for the final mix. I was surprised myself that the contrast was so great. Without the direct comparison, I might have thought of that B2 reverb as great for the task. What also was remarkable is that it took much longer than with hardware to find something that sounded good to me.

I am asking out of curiosity. I am aware that those hardware boxes are still pretty expensive, and not everyone can afford them, let alone multiple of them. Yet, I find them indispensable for my work. And if even devs nowadays have only ITB convolution as a reference (which is much inferior to the convolution process in a DRE-S777 or a Yamaha S REV1), I find this rather problematic. But maybe I misunderstood Vojtech's post?

Please don't take my post as bragging. I do own many of the legendary hardware reverbs, since I consider space as very important for my work. I own much more hardware reverbs than hardware compressors! But I am genuinely interested in hearing about what nowadays' situation is for audio engineers (and plugin devs), since I got the impression that most of you are only talking about ITB reverbs, which to my ears are still really lacking compared to good hardware, even more so than compressors.
But I really wouldn't mind having everything ITB! And we are indeed getting closer.

Maybe it would even be of interest for a dev to have me as a beta tester for reverbs, though that might be a bit of a time issue. Vojtech seems to be a guy with a heartfelt sense of humor, and I enjoy reading from him, so maybe that would be something to consider!

Thank you,
Rumi S. Hatt, http://www.pilgrimstudio.ch

[Winstontaneous]

Rumi, you make some good points but it's probably best to start a separate thread as it's sort of off topic from the original Melda product. MTurboVerb looks very impressive but frankly, I'm more into simpler reverb plugins these days.

I recently picked up a Lexicon Reflex - it's the first "way better than decent" hardware 'verb I've owned and it has a distinct character. One thing about hardware is that sooner or later you have to print the results as audio and move on to other mix elements.

[Rumi]

Rumi, you make some good points but it's probably best to start a separate thread as it's sort of off topic from the original Melda product. MTurboVerb looks very impressive but frankly, I'm more into simpler reverb plugins these days.

I recently picked up a Lexicon Reflex - it's the first "way better than decent" hardware 'verb I've owned and it has a distinct character. One thing about hardware is that sooner or later you have to print the results as audio and move on to other mix elements.

Hi Winston (?),
yes, I'm of course aware that it's pretty off topic. And on the other hand, this reverb could be one of the few that has "hardware qualities". But I need to work for a longer time with it.
What led me to post here was a combination of incidents - the pretty frustrating testing of ITB reverbs, the joy of using hardware reverbs, and the impression that MTurboReverb could be a turning point. And I like Vojtech's attitude!

Lexicon made some good "not so high end" units, I guess the LXP15 was one of them. It's been decades (well, about two) since I've last heard a Reflex.

I sincerely wish you all to hear and work with a unit like the DRE-S777, the Kurzweil KSP8 or the TC 6000 (I prefer them over the Lexicon 480L or the Bricasti M7, the former is too "saucy", the latter a little bland). It's such bliss to work with them, and paint wonderful soundscapes within minutes. Life gets simple - for example, most of the time I use program 1 of the European CD on the DRE-S777 (Concertgebouw cardioid), tweak the reverb time, and it's done. If it needs to be lighter, it's the Jesus Christus Church.
And it doesn't have to be such a high end unit - the Behringer V-Verb, Roland SRV-330, Zoom 9200, Kurzweil Rumour, Yamaha SPX2000, Sony R7, Lexicon PCM70 etc. are all very solid units. The Roland R-880 or the Klark Teknik DN 780 are also not that expensive on the used market.

And yes, you have to commit! Music would be better nowadays if people would do that more often, and work with the attitude of "hit or miss, but do commit". I'm getting more and more off topic...

If I work ITB, I most often only use reverb units that I can include through AES. I usually get the tonal balance, and some basic dynamics, and then print some reverbs. It's not an issue if you do slight corrections on the original signals after that. If I use the reverbs without digital inputs, I use the analog desk (ADT 5MT) for the whole mix.
I mainly mix acoustically recorded music, from Folk to Rock. But even for EDM etc., it's still better to use good hardware than software reverbs, to my ears. Especially if you use synthetic digital sound sources. They need some "real flesh" along the way. ITB reverbs have the same weaknesses as digital sound sources.

And by the way, I found H-Reverb pretty ugly sounding. My assistant, who comes from an EDM background, told me that even 29 Dollars are too much for that, but I bought it anyway, hoping that I might some day find a use for it.

[VariKusBrainZ]

Also depends on the imparted quality of the components used in the hardware.

Im sure if you slapped on some analog modelled (or otherwise subtle) saturation or DAC modeller you will get closer still to the hardware.

Also depends on your soundcard sampling rates etc.

(Upping the internal sampling rates in Melda plugs gradually dulls the sound, I guess as the low pass algo of the oversampling is increased.)

Rumi has some nice hardware listed on his site..including an M7

[Rumi]

You don't need an M7 to make good mixes!

I don't know what it is, but most ITB reverbs to my ears lack depth, solidity, an "organic quality" and "roots", or groundedness. Phoenix Reverb for example is an "ethereal something" to my ears. Compare that to the solidity and breathtaking boldness of the TC 6000, or even to the "meanness" of a cheap box like the SDR 1000, and you probably understand what I mean. I really don't know what the mathematical background is of that. One reason is certainly that those units are dedicated to reverb, while a computer is rather optimized for office work... If you take a look into a DRE-S777, you get an idea of what is involved to calculate the reverb. That thing is full of chips, and it is a very deep box. The whole convolution is done differently than in software (in the time domain instead of the frequency domain, if I recall correctly).

Martin from Relab has stated some good points over here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-en ... -s777.html. The reverberation of bass frequencies alone is already an issue by itself. For example, the EMT 246 has a preset for kick drum, and it sounds awesome. Show me an ITB reverb that doesn't mess up the sound with such a task! There are some, but few do it well.

Maybe Vojtech is moved to share some things about his findings in relation to spaciousness, depth, "organic quality", etc.? Or more specifically (and fully on topic!), what settings in the MTurboReverb lead to which results?

I was very surprised by the u-he Protoverb. That reverb reminded me of the original Quantec QRS (if you treat the Protoverb with an EQ, otherwise it often sounds strange). As far as I know, the Protoverb is based simply on a lot of delay lines. This ITB reverb has the "earthy quality" I am often looking for in a reverb.

The topic of oversampling is indeed not to be underrated. Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Labs has posted some interesting info on that other forum. For whatever reason, there often is a sound degradation with oversampling. More is not always better!
And even though it's counter intuitive, I can relate to the duller sound with upsampling. It also happens in Fab Filter's Pro-L, for example - the sound gets "rounded" in a strange way.

[VariKusBrainZ]

We are in denial but its true, hardware just sounds 'more pleasing'.
I started ITB but got some hardware, old and new and I suddenly understood.

But there are ways ITB to get there

[Rumi]

We are in denial but its true, hardware just sounds 'more pleasing'.
I started ITB but got some hardware, old and new and I suddenly understood.

But there are ways ITB to get there

And one of them might well be MTurboReverb! It doesn't happen often anymore that I'm excited to dive into a new plugin.

And I'm one post away from being allowed to post gearslutz links.

[VariKusBrainZ]

We are in denial but its true, hardware just sounds 'more pleasing'.
I started ITB but got some hardware, old and new and I suddenly understood.

But there are ways ITB to get there

And one of them is MTurboReverb! It doesn't happen often anymore that I'm excited to dive into a new plugin.

And I'm one post away from being allowed to post gearslutz links.

A quick google reveals you praising MReverb

[Rumi]

We are in denial but its true, hardware just sounds 'more pleasing'.
I started ITB but got some hardware, old and new and I suddenly understood.

But there are ways ITB to get there

And one of them is MTurboReverb! It doesn't happen often anymore that I'm excited to dive into a new plugin.

And I'm one post away from being allowed to post gearslutz links.

A quick google reveals you praising MReverb

Yes, that was my introduction into Melda Reverbs, not that long ago. I checked Melda once, back when it was a small company that offered some useful freebies, and then lost track (i.e. I until recently still had that image of "useful small freebies" from all these years ago). It was a steep correction curve! And I'm thankful that I took a closer look at that "eternal madness" sale that came into my mailbox. I am moved to check some other Melda products!
Even MReverb has a "good solidity" that few ITB reverbs have.

[VariKusBrainZ]

^
Yup, I consider myself lucky too when I got the creative bundle for Eur60 back in the day, I had no idea it would explode (and a shit load of plugins would continually be added) but just thought the plugins were amazing!!!

Buy in now and you wont be disappointed !!!!

[Rumi]

^
Yup, I consider myself lucky too when I got the creative bundle for Eur60 back in the day, I had no idea it would explode (and a shit load of plugins would continually be added) but just thought the plugins were amazing!!!

Buy in now and you wont be disappointed !!!!

Wow, that certainly was (or better: evolved into) a bargain!

[MeldaProduction]

Thanks folks!