ROLI's writing on the wall happened

[machinesworking]

You may be incapable of being objective, clearly demonstrated, but it is not something I have the slightest problem with.

You definitely have a problem with being objective, you don't even know when you're doing it, that's why you get into so many arguments with people online.

In the bigger picture not a soul is actually objective, you can only attempt to not filter data without personal bias.
This,

What I can say is that there is not a whole lot of their stuff available on eBay, which tends to indicate to me that most people who buy their stuff hang onto it. Or maybe no-one ever bought any in the first place, which seems unlikely as they have been out of stock of most things for a year or more.

is not objective, you have come to a subjective conclusion with limited data.

[BONES]

Sorry, you have it back to front. I have so many arguments with you idiots because you can't even see objective reality most of the time. Your post here is a perfect example because I haven't come to any kind of conclusion at all, in that I have offered two possibilities and made it quite clear I have no idea which is more likely.

I'd also point out that the very concept of a soul is absolutely f**king absurd.

Your perspective on it is subjective.

I have stated quite clearly that I have no perspective on the matter, as I am not in possession of anywhere near enough information to make such a judgement. I am simply being critical of those who think they know more about it than the company itself does.

Lumi is a separate brand,
however it's also not when its on ROLI page.
https://roli.com/products/blocks/lumi-k ... io-edition

Right, because whoever heard of cross-promotion? Honestly, you are just making my point for me. Go to the Lumi site and see how many times you see Roli mentioned. If you can't be bothered, I'll help you, the one and only reference to "Roli" is in the tiny Copyright notice at the foot of the page.

when on playlumi.com, it's not BLOCKS (although it is), and when on ROLI page, it's BLOCKS!

No, not even close. All they are doing on the Roli site is pointing out that it is compatible with Blocks, not that it is a Blocks product. All you have to do to work it out is compare it to the other Blocks products, all of which have "Block" in their product name - Seaboard Block, Lightpad Block, Loop Block, Live Block and Touch Block. If they were advertising it on the Roli site as a "Lumi Keys Block" you would definitely have a point but they aren't, so you don't. And that's just a fact.

[herodotus]

I have only the most vague idea of what is going on in this thread, but it's fascinating nonetheless.

I missed this place.

[poonna]

Lumi is a separate brand,
however it's also not when its on ROLI page.
https://roli.com/products/blocks/lumi-k ... io-edition

Right, because whoever heard of cross-promotion? Honestly, you are just making my point for me. Go to the Lumi site and see how many times you see Roli mentioned. If you can't be bothered, I'll help you, the one and only reference to "Roli" is in the tiny Copyright notice at the foot of the page.

Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, but here are photos of the box of my LUMI. It does have big ROLI logos on it and states BLOCKS compatibility on the back. I'm sure the packaging will be different for units ordered from playlumi.com, but from what I've read, the hardware is essentially the same. Only bundled software/courses are different.

I, as a buyer, did have an initial confusion before buying it though. Whether it's my stupidity or not, I'm not sure. But I was not sure initially what the differences were between ones being sold at playlumi.com and ones on roli.com (the Studio Edition). I had to look for more information to find out.

Edit: I do think that the LUMI Keys are overspec'ed for teaching piano. I don't think casual piano learners need glide, pressure, or even release sensitivity. It seemed to be designed for pro/semi-pro/serious users, but mostly (not totally) marketed for piano learners. I think the piano learners market could probably be the larger one, but this mismatch in design/marketing might have driven the cost to be unnecessarily high for casual learners due to the features they don't need. It's all still my own speculation, though.

when on playlumi.com, it's not BLOCKS (although it is), and when on ROLI page, it's BLOCKS!

No, not even close. All they are doing on the Roli site is pointing out that it is compatible with Blocks, not that it is a Blocks product. All you have to do to work it out is compare it to the other Blocks products, all of which have "Block" in their product name - Seaboard Block, Lightpad Block, Loop Block, Live Block and Touch Block. If they were advertising it on the Roli site as a "Lumi Keys Block" you would definitely have a point but they aren't, so you don't. And that's just a fact.

It's also listed under BLOCKS product group on the ROLI site though.

BONES, as I think you might be considering getting a LUMI, there's something about the 4D-ness I think might worth mentioning. The glide is very different from the Seaboard, as I think it's more like trills. There's not a lot of travel you can glide, just very tiny shifts from side to side, so it might be disappointing. The pressure sensitivity is not nearly as good as the Seaboard, either. It's less gradual, more abrupt, kind of feel that is harder to control, or probably need some time to learn.

[biomechanoid]

Which reminds me I forgot to mention---Dystopian Futures (new Equator2 expansion) sounds great:

Thanks!

[Amberience]

The reason there are no ROLI products on eBay is coz they treated their suppliers like creditors and couldn't make anymore, and the rest are in landfills where they belong.

[Double Tap]

I have only the most vague idea of what is going on in this thread, but it's fascinating nonetheless.

I missed this place.

Don't worry - someone will be along in a minute to tell you you're wrong.

[Ploki]

no u

[Ou_Tis]

The reason there are no ROLI products on eBay is coz they treated their suppliers like creditors and couldn't make anymore, and the rest are in landfills where they belong.

Reverb.com: 32 Results for “Seaboard”

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Seaboard

77 Results for “Roli”

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Roli

... though I actually bought two of my Seaboard Blocks on eBay. Reverb.com generally does seem to be better for used music gear.

[machinesworking]

Sorry, you have it back to front. I have so many arguments with you idiots because you can't even see objective reality most of the time. Your post here is a perfect example because I haven't come to any kind of conclusion at all, in that I have offered two possibilities and made it quite clear I have no idea which is more likely.

What's amazing to me is you can write this paragraph of conjecture, which is clearly conjecture, and imply your "likely" conclusions from that conjecture, and you're unaware enough of what a subjective or objective opinion is to get angry about it when you're called out.

What I can say is that there is not a whole lot of their stuff available on eBay, which tends to indicate to me that most people who buy their stuff hang onto it. Or maybe no-one ever bought any in the first place, which seems unlikely as they have been out of stock of most things for a year or more.

You have come to a subjective conclusion with limited data, it's clear as day, but you're too arrogant to admit it.

What's weird is it never dawns on you that Roli being out of stock of most things for a year or two might be why there's nothing on ebay. <- This is why conjecture is not objective, people only make 'objective' observations about data that fits their narrative. So a straw man, "no one bought any" is used instead of the obvious answer in terms of most likely, that Roli is having supply chain issues.

Once again, conjecture, by it's very nature is not objective, you're literally coming to an opinion, which you do more than once in the above paragraph, without all the information.

[BONES]

Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion, but here are photos of the box of my LUMI. It does have big ROLI logos on it and states BLOCKS compatibility on the back. I'm sure the packaging will be different for units ordered from playlumi.com, but from what I've read, the hardware is essentially the same. Only bundled software/courses are different.

That's interesting because if you search for "lumi keys box", all you get are these two boxes -



It seems they are doing slightly different branding for the Studio Edition, to appeal more to the pro crowd, I imagine.

BONES, as I think you might be considering getting a LUMI, there's something about the 4D-ness I think might worth mentioning. The glide is very different from the Seaboard, as I think it's more like trills. There's not a lot of travel you can glide, just very tiny shifts from side to side, so it might be disappointing. The pressure sensitivity is not nearly as good as the Seaboard, either. It's less gradual, more abrupt, kind of feel that is harder to control, or probably need some time to learn.

Thanks for the info but it won't bother me, because my aim is to attach it to my Seaboard, so I have two octaves of 5D and two octaves of normal MIDI controller in one. It wouldn't bother me if all I had was velocity so I can dial down the other dimensions if I need to. The real challenge will be finding a way to actually buy one. There are none on eBay and they don't seem to be selling them in retail stores, so the only way I can think of to actually get my hands on one is to get my nephew in Berlin to buy it for me and ship it out here, which is more effort than I am willing to go to at the moment.

The reason there are no ROLI products on eBay is coz they treated their suppliers like creditors and couldn't make anymore, and the rest are in landfills where they belong.

There are plenty of Roli products on eBay, some new but most are used. I just bought my 6th Lightpad Block on eBay last week.

Reverb.com: 32 Results for “Seaboard” https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=Seaboard

Holy Cow! Those are all more than I paid for my Seaboards when they were brand new.

What's amazing to me is you can write this paragraph of conjecture, which is clearly conjecture, and imply your "likely" conclusions from that conjecture, and you're unaware enough of what a subjective or objective opinion is to get angry about it when you're called out.

Except it's not conjecture, is it? Anyone can check for themselves, can't they? You don't even need an account to do a search and see for yourself, do you?

You have come to a subjective conclusion with limited data, it's clear as day, but you're too arrogant to admit it.

Except, as I pointed out yesterday, I haven't come to a conclusion, I've offered two possible explanations without favouring one or the other. In the normal course of conversation, someone might offer a third alternative or perhaps just pick one of mine, but not you, you have to resort to a personal insult.

What's weird is it never dawns on you that Roli being out of stock of most things for a year or two might be why there's nothing on ebay.

That's clearly why there is very little new stuff on eBay but they've been selling Seaboards since 2016, so you'd think there would be a decent supply of used ones being offered for sale, wouldn't you?

[machinesworking]

You have come to a subjective conclusion with limited data, it's clear as day, but you're too arrogant to admit it.

Except, as I pointed out yesterday, I haven't come to a conclusion, I've offered two possible explanations without favouring one or the other. In the normal course of conversation, someone might offer a third alternative or perhaps just pick one of mine, but not you, you have to resort to a personal insult.

Again any conjecture, which is clearly what you wrote, (not just possible explanations), is not objective, it's always subjective. When you come to conclusions like this, " which tends to indicate to me that most people who buy their stuff hang onto it" that's conjecture, subjective opinion with limited data.

That's clearly why there is very little new stuff on eBay but they've been selling Seaboards since 2016, so you'd think there would be a decent supply of used ones being offered for sale, wouldn't you?

As someone pointed out there are a few on Reverb which has been winning out over eBay for musical instrument sales etc. Again when you draw a conclusion with limited data, it's subjective opinion. Even if it's asked in everyones favorite way as a rhetorical question.

I think you put entirely too much weight on the concept of an objective opinion, when we're talking about the business dealings of a company that we don't work at etc. we can only get so much out of it. Until Roli folds or becomes a mega corporation, their inner workings are only known by outside speculation. So you putting a positive spin on your chat about it, me putting a wary or hesitant spin, or some here saying they're doomed because investors etc. Who knows what the future brings?

[dayjob]

i never thought i'd encounter someone willing to die on every single possible hill. thank f**k for the ignore function. jfc. someone turn off the internet for a few days. go make some tunes or something.

[Ploki]

At 6 lightpad blocks it just makes more sense to buy Erae Touch

[WasteLand]

At 6 lightpad blocks it just makes more sense to buy Erae Touch

perhaps; 6 ligthpadM blocks are second hand, well i have 2; both around €90 including shipping, second hand, as good as new.

the Erae Touch is quite interesting, more performance focused i think. so go with what you like.
great product, like Keith McMIllen, has two MPE products..

i stepped into Roli; almost 2 years ago, and since a month the setup is; 2 x Roli Seabord Block + 2 x Roli Lightpad M Block, as 'surface' as Roli calls it, one cable.

a third Lightpad M Block i will acquire someday. not needed now, yet..

these give extra capabilities, and there is another, free one, i forgot about...;

https://isotonikstudios.com/product/ldm ... ocks-pack/

https://isotonikstudios.com/product/ldm ... -pack-two/

i don't read the whole thread, because it is all around at Roli user groups, other fora, etc.

and my setup, is considered to be 'a first sony', well, why can i perform with it, making my own MPE patches (and also for fun play third party MPE presets, from Plasmonic or the MPE strings of ableton..), quite excellent, a bandwidth of sounds from one patch (sometimes it are soft modulars..) or presets.

well that is a different story.

it works well in my case, no problems, sensitivity perfect (for me). expression; excellent.

all personal, i always add.

a legend returns, Roli claims;



and you pre-order now.. the 'old' ones..

not a fan-boy, i see the problems, i don't experience them... all works, i am just excited.. when i play with my setup...
software can be better, but even Live 11 Suite has smoothing..

well it gives me a lot, the setup i have, so a very personal experience, and i can play it well, in my own way, very well, i think for the results i want. quite detailed.

but this is a apocalyptic thread, we like that.. there are products that are gone, overnight, the support.. Kore.. but Roli seems to update still Roli Connect (only sometimes in the middle of a session...........).

i can't predict it, who can? perhaps the new Legend will bring some attention, and still, it is a niche market, people like to buy a seabord block or lightpad block, or a RISE.