Could someone please explain anti-loop snobbery?

[herodotus]

Another issue is whether or not the skills that musicians used to need to make music (instrumental skills, vocal skills, etc.) are a central part of what music is, or merely one possible means to an end.

Also, isn't it kind of silly to berate kids for playing with Acid loops as opposed to, say, playing Doom or Grand Theft Auto?

[dirty oscillators]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

you think rapping is easy? it's doubtful that a lot of singers have the rhythm and timing to get up on stage and pull that off. then to top it off, i bet you couldn't last more than 5 seconds in a freestyle battle...

your whole post is full of narrow minded views on what makes an artist or a performer.

[buscemi]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

you think rapping is easy? it's doubtful that a lot of singers have the rhythm and timing to get up on stage and pull that off. then to top it off, i bet you couldn't last more than 5 seconds in a freestyle battle...

your whole post is full of narrow minded views on what makes an artist or a performer.

Hush now, he's saving the best for the book. He's obviously got his finger on the complex backdrop of modern culture.

[whiteanxiety]

it's just a means to an end. if the music is awful you can't necessarily blame the palette or the instruments... but you can blame the person behind the the production and performance for lack of artistry or creative flair. IMO it has nothing to do with whether you use loops in Ableton Live, you use racks of Doepfer step sequencers, you play your notes into Logic and then edit the hell out of them, or you only play acoustic instruments and record them all in one take. it's more important *how* you use something than *what* you use in some cases.

If music doesn't sound the way you like, don't "blame" anyone. Just don't listen to it.

[dan_s]

This topic actually has a very complex cultural backdrop that, had I the time, I could probably write a book about.

One of the most fascinating aspects of the question has to do with the relationship of artist and audience. Anyone who has spent much time developing a skill is aware that displaying that skill does not evoke admiration, necessarily. Just as frequently the result is envy, jealousy, criticism, or, most frequently simply being pointedly ignored. Amplifiers exist, in part, so that musicians have the capacity to drown out audiences who prefer the sound of their own voices to that of even the most talented singer.

Loops are the result of the desire of the untalented to prove that the accomplishments of those who strive to excell are worthless. Hey, you're not so great--I can just push a button and do the same thing. Or, as they put it on "Weekend Update" that new scratch-hero game is for "kids who are too lazy to learn how to play fake guitar."

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

this is BARELY even related to the topic, i really dont think I need to directly respond, as you make it clear, that you are just talking 'someshit'

[whiteanxiety]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

This is absolutely not true, as a lot of rappers can sing very well, and do so on their albums. Rap is a predominantly african american scene and some of the best vocal chords in the world are born of these people.

Rap and rnb pretty much go hand in hand. Think about african american culture and history for a moment, i'm sure it will hit you.

[advaya]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

you think rapping is easy? ... your whole post is full of narrow minded views on what makes an artist or a performer.

Unbelievable... Someone now prods at a style of music you're apparently interested in, and you get all upity about it.

After three days of your participation in another unmentioned thread, one might assume this all just a bit hypocritical.

[blatanville]

And by the way, I never found collage particularly interesting eiher - if you know of anyone getting touched and moved by a collage as by a painting from 1600's, please let me know...

a friend had a huge coffee-book-sized catalog, three inches thick, from a Robert Rauschenberg (it might have been for the Guggenheim Retrospective)...
looking a the pieces catalogued therein made my mouth dry and my heart pound...much like when I study a Vermeer...

Note: a LOT of surviving 17th century painting was commissioned work, done for the aggrandizement of the patron. A lucky/clever few artists were able to sneak in their own perceptions of their patrons into the paintings to inform history about the subjects, too. (And they can be bloody good examples of light, shadow, weight, composition, colour, etc.)

[vurt]

Because obviously completely impossible that someone talented could make a great piece of music that uses a loop for one of its elements.

the bee gees, night fever for example...

[vurt]

Precisely one of the reasons why I hate loops.

actual hate?
do you really think that loops (or indeed any music related items) are deserving of such an emotion?

Until only the talented elite few make music, yes. Until then, go kick all the "dumb and slobbery" looped dogs you can find.

i only ever "hated" one thing in my life, it no longer exists.

[dirty oscillators]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

you think rapping is easy? ... your whole post is full of narrow minded views on what makes an artist or a performer.

Unbelievable... Someone now prods at a style of music you're apparently interested in, and you get all upity about it.

After three days of your participation in another unmentioned thread, one might assume this all just a bit hypocritical.

nice to take what i said out of context. when said his post is full of narrow minded views it was referring to his comments on what makes someone a "worthy" performer or artist. it had less to do with the genre of music.


i guess it would make sense to jump on calling me a hypocrite since you were obviously offended by some of the opinions and sarcastic posts in the recent trance thread.

@robojam: If you don't like trance, then you don't like it. If you find nothing redeeming in it, that's fine as well...

I'm just a little confused by your overabundance of caustic posts in this thread.

[vurt]

This topic actually has a very complex cultural backdrop that, had I the time, I could probably write a book about.

One of the most fascinating aspects of the question has to do with the relationship of artist and audience. Anyone who has spent much time developing a skill is aware that displaying that skill does not evoke admiration, necessarily. Just as frequently the result is envy, jealousy, criticism, or, most frequently simply being pointedly ignored. Amplifiers exist, in part, so that musicians have the capacity to drown out audiences who prefer the sound of their own voices to that of even the most talented singer.

Loops are the result of the desire of the untalented to prove that the accomplishments of those who strive to excell are worthless. Hey, you're not so great--I can just push a button and do the same thing. Or, as they put it on "Weekend Update" that new scratch-hero game is for "kids who are too lazy to learn how to play fake guitar."

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

[vurt]

When a person type "I hate loops" or "I hate this thing blah blah"

it doesn't neccessarily mean that he or she is REALLY feeling that emotion.

hate is a sacred thing and shouldnt be bandied about willy nilly.

[advaya]

Just as rappers are anti-singers, loopers are anti-drummers. And it's not as though you even need a physical skill to create a good groove. Sequencing means you can create anything you can think. As long as you're not too lazy to think, of course.

you think rapping is easy? ... your whole post is full of narrow minded views on what makes an artist or a performer.

Unbelievable... Someone now prods at a style of music you're apparently interested in, and you get all upity about it.

After three days of your participation in another unmentioned thread, one might assume this all just a bit hypocritical.

nice to take what i said out of context. when said his post is full of narrow minded views it was referring to his comments on what makes someone a "worthy" performer or artist. it had less to do with the genre of music.


i guess it would make sense to jump on calling me a hypocrite since you were obviously offended by some of the opinions and sarcastic posts in the recent trance thread.

@robojam: If you don't like trance, then you don't like it. If you find nothing redeeming in it, that's fine as well...

I'm just a little confused by your overabundance of caustic posts in this thread.

I asked a rather straight-forward (and neutral) question, to which he never did answer. (how is that hypocritical of me?)

And the only context I see here is that your post was initially prompted by his insinuation that rapping was easy.

[vurt]

that rapping was easy.

its just talking in time to a groove, how hard can it be?