Quik Quak RaySpace Best Reverb Ever?

[hifiboom]

hey whyterabbyt,

buy this one:
http://www.neckermann.de/index1.mb1?mb_ ... 1_ch=ca53a

and stop bugging me...

[fritzman]

...
just read the first posts in this thread, I asked what others think about this tool as I found it too be very good.

The two other reverb vst tools, I think that are very good are ArtsAcoustic and Wizoo Reverb...so I compared them with real sounds...

you could test yourself and assign the WMA files to the specific reverb...

Hi hifiboom,

I forgot about your initial question and your comparisson. Here we go: From my own test I don't like RaySpace too much. I like it when a reverb fades out smooth without single delays audible. It's too easy for me to get such poorly decaying settings with it. It can do good sounds, just not too much according to my taste.

Your comparisson: The high and killer machine thingies don't work for me. The synth examples are good IMHO. I like Synth1 the most, good stereo image, deep. Synth2 is the worst, sounds poor to me. Synth3 is too static in the tail. That doesn't reflect the modulated synth too much. Also I can't hear the full decay as you cut it off too early. I guess Synth 3 is RaySpace. So what is what?


Best wishes, FRitz

[whyterabbyt]

hey whyterabbyt,

buy this one:
http://www.neckermann.de/index1.mb1?mb_ ... 1_ch=ca53a

and stop bugging me...

Maybe its one of these you need

[hifiboom]

I think this would be fine...

fritzman: I will post you the answer when I am at home.

[CaptainMark]

convolution is a nice toy .... but nothing for real buisness.

The above statement is ridiculous.

Convolution is an invaluable tool used by many professionals.

My compliments...

TheCaptain.

[friteuse]

Hi hifiboom, here I'm back again, had a lot of work the past hours.

Ok, I will ignore all disputes of the last posts and keep down to earth.

don't know what rooms you've been, but for me, only "bad" rooms have fluttering echos (parallel walls etc.).

nearly ever room I know has parallel walls... what do you mean... and of course:

you never listen to a real room exactly? of course it has hard sounding resonances, etc... and can give you echos....
but it is nearly never never total smooth....
believe me!!!

As I'm a recording engineer that recorded from symphonic orchestras to big bands nearly everything, I certainly know lots of rooms. I did quiet a lot of research about reverb (and especially natural reverb), I recorded impulses (but not IRs) in different locations just to listen to the magic thing of real rooms.

Fluttering echos (in german "Flatterechos" ) occur mainly in rooms with parallel walls in it, and they are definitly a "bad" thing, if not used as special effect, because they are regular and sound kind of bathroom.

I gues, what you mean, these are larger echos, they can occur in real (large) rooms, but they aren't that distinctive and sound totally different from that, what I hear on RaySpace. Probaly closer is ArtsAcoustic Reverb, using the echo feature, or long tails with ReverbOne or Lexicon gear. Btw, on ArtsAcoustic, you can lower the density to 0% and get similar results to those of RaySpace (similar means not better...), but I think, this is just a mathematical "low density", not a natural.

An ultra smoothed out reverb will never sound good in a mix,
only if you use it as single reverb fx, for example you are producing a balad, and give the vocal a strong smooth reverb,
but with percussive insturments your whole mix will sound muddy and unrealistic because the "smooth" reverb tail doen`t sound realistic... believe me... and try it out

But you won`t believe me, so you use ur chorus optimized reverb tool, while I use mine...

Have fun...

Phew..., do I have to comment this? Ok, I try it without blaming...

We should first of all define what we mean with "smooth". I still think, chorus and smooth are different things - while chorus is a slight frequency modulation, smooth tails (in my opinion) are similar to dense tails, what means reflections per time. What I don't like with RaySpace is its low density: the reflections per time and the resulting fluttering in tail, and not the lack of a chorus engine in it...

Hope you got what I mean

The matter with too smooth tails, btw, I fully agree (or "believe") to you! It really can be muddy and destroy a mix. But the way, a reverb deals with low density, is essential...

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I dont't like RaySpace, but it's just a little too limited imho for an universal reverb.

[fritzman]

Yoh friteuse,

well said. Couldn't have said it better.


Best wishes, FRitz

[friteuse]

Ah, I completly forgot to post my results I got listening to your files. So, here they are:

What I like best is

high drum sound 2
vocal 2
synth 1

what I liked least is

high drum sound 3
vocal 1
synth 2

I was listening on Adam S4-A speakers and rated the way the reverb glues with the sound, openes up a spatiality, gives the most realistic impression of a room or just pleased me like that.

After your warm comments, I think the best results should always be RaySpace...

I'm curious about the solution - will you post it soon?

[hifiboom]

solution:

high1.wav Wizoo
high2.wav ArtsAcoustic
high3.wav QuikQuak
killer_machine1.wav QuikQuak
killer_machine2.wav ArtsAcoustic
killer_machine3.wav Wizoo
synth1 ArtsAcoustic
synth2 QuikQuak
synth3 Wizoo


Thanks for your statement friteuse, it seems very objective....

all you say is right

Just some ads.

first point:
Did you try some tweaking on the QuikQuak, the parameters are not really user friendly....

second point:
I thing the yRaySpace it a very dense reverb, maybe not optimized for short drum sounds, but while many other reverbs do the dense trick with feedback loops and some chorus fx to make it sound less static and ringing.

Most of the reverbs I know just cut out the high freq. over the time very fast to make the tail more smooth but that also cut out the brilliant sound and which let the dry and the wet signal get one and the same....
(hope you get what i mean, my bad english, heheh)

Don`t get me wrong, I think the ArtAcoustic and the Wizoo are both among the best reverbs on vst market....

my reference is a cd, and I always try to get this sound with vst plugs which seeems to be unpossible....

Try to get a dry clap to sound like that:
http://home.arcor.de/rd50info_site/reve ... _claps.wma
nearly every effect sounds much too dull... I miss the high frequencys and the convolution reverbs sound grainy at highs...

and I miss the live feeeling.

This reverb is stunning. How do I get this effect...

[CaptainMark]

Just a thought: you could try cutting a wet clap out of your audio example and try feeding this as an impulse response into a convolution reverb.

My compliments,

TheCaptain.

[hifiboom]

forget this I tried to get this sound and none of any vst shit can produce that sound quality... the hole CD has that exclusive rverb quality.... I don`t know what processor it is but none convolution reverb and no impulse response could get nearly 50% of that rich sounding quality .... every other reverb sounds dull, also 480L impulse responses....

Its not that I never tried it, I ve tried this over many years... of course not every day, but every time I get a new reverb demo to my fingers... I try to put in claps and hear what it sounds like.

OF course Quik Quak does not do this too, it it has some high frequencies that sound little bit like that, while others sound more dull, what many seem to describe as smooth, i miss these high lush frequencies...

And of course this clap reverb does sound wide open, it also does sound very smooth....

And it also has the moving in it, I mean no clap sounds eactly the same as the next one, its perfect ER modulation.... the tail also does change little .... but it does not colour the sound...perfect

Every convolution just sound static to this... I m sure it is a hardware processor as the Cd is of age where there was no VST toy out for PC.

And many hardware users tell that these convolution reverbs can`t capture the feeling the real things have...

Maybe its soething like Roland SRS.

I don`t know. But I would be very thankfull if somebody could give me a hint what hardware is needed to generate this effect...

But I m sure only a real professional knows what kind of tool is needed, maybe you, friteuse?

[CaptainMark]

Well, a 480L can also sound dull.

I'd guess that elusive sound you're looking for is from an Eventide unit (it might in fact be a factory preset from the old H3000 called "Locker Room" - but I may well be wrong - it's been a long time since I used it and it's difficult to tell without hearing the original dry signal).

Some Yamaha boxes also made some bright reverbs that might be what you're after.

You might also consider layering two very different reverbs on top of each other.

And if you were to use your imagination, you might even think of a way to process the output of a convolution reverb to stop it sounding static.

My compliments,

TheCaptain.

[hifiboom]

Well, a 480L can also sound dull.

I'd guess that elusive sound you're looking for is from an Eventide unit (it might in fact be a factory preset from the old H3000 called "Locker Room" - but I may well be wrong - it's been a long time since I used it and it's difficult to tell without hearing the original dry signal).

Some Yamaha boxes also made some bright reverbs that might be what you're after.

You might also consider layering two very different reverbs on top of each other.

And if you were to use your imagination, you might even think of a way to process the output of a convolution reverb to stop it sounding static.

My compliments,

TheCaptain.

Thanks for your help, I once had a Yamaha Pro R3 and it didn`t do the trick....

Maybe you are right and its the Eventide H3000, I`ll just order one tomorrow to check this out. LOL

maybe i`ll find some impulse response from this unit.... and try if the character is right...

But I found that reverb on more than one CD, I have about 10 CDs which I think I can hear it. It just sounds taht fantastic....

[friteuse]

hifiboom,

I have so much work these days, I could not really carefully listen to your claps. But a few points I suppose (this is just my first impression):

- I think the variation in the reverb, it's not the reverb, that varies, but the claps itselves. Listen carefully, they are each time tuned a bit different - and that's what the reverb carries on.

- The reverb is, for my definitions, quiet "smooth" and dense, but very spatial. It has kind of predelay or attack shape that let it come up a little after the inital signal.

- I suppose this could be one of the older plate or room simluators like EMT250 or Quantec, but I know even older Alesis, Yamaha or Boss gear often is used and can produce great reverbs for such purpose.

- On software, try out and take the one you like best! But be aware, if you want exactly reach this sound you hear on your example, you should use exact the same sounds & equipement. If you don't know these, than your results will always differ, although they might not be worse!

Hope this could help, best wishes!

friteuse

[nuffink]

Disgruntled trance-heads walk out of club in reverb-tail smoothness protest.