downloading samples of beats is no good!

[nakedhoof]

then we need to ditch most of the music industry !

Precisely!

[blaster78]

partial quotes don't tell the full story though....

i like a lot of that music industry, i was was just pointing out that they didn't get there based on your criteria.

steve.

[nakedhoof]

partial quotes don't tell the full story though....

i like a lot of that music industry, i was was just pointing out that they didn't get there based on your criteria.

steve.

Indeed. That doesn't change the fact that if you're devoid of these things, your chances are a lot slimmer.

It also doesn't change the fact that I feel that these things are important. It also doesn't change the fact that most younger people don't think these things are important. I'm even starting to wonder myself...

[Ildon]

does anyone agree that its much better to download sounds instead of song samples (eg. beats)?
i think one thing thats important is ofcourse to mix sounds and beats is good, etc.. but also originality of sounds and manipulation of them!
i mean how can you be original if your using a beat someone else or others have used!

does anyone agree or have any comments?

I'd say taking a loop and chopping it up to make something new is pretty original. Some people like to take the old and do something new with it. Drum and bass artists, for example, take old loops and speed them up, then do their own thing to them. While I know of people who use loops just to impress others (shameless), it's largely all about how the individual feels they need to be heard.

[blaster78]

partial quotes don't tell the full story though....

i like a lot of that music industry, i was was just pointing out that they didn't get there based on your criteria.

steve.

Indeed. That doesn't change the fact that if you're devoid of these things, your chances are a lot slimmer.

It also doesn't change the fact that I feel that these things are important. It also doesn't change the fact that most younger people don't think these things are important. I'm even starting to wonder myself...

so who exactly would you consider to be the most talented, hardest working, most able band in the the world ?

i personaly don't want my favourite bands to get grade eight in their instruments and knuckle down to working 10 hours a day, 48 weeks a year.

i just want them to sound good.

steve.

[nakedhoof]

partial quotes don't tell the full story though....

i like a lot of that music industry, i was was just pointing out that they didn't get there based on your criteria.

steve.

Indeed. That doesn't change the fact that if you're devoid of these things, your chances are a lot slimmer.

It also doesn't change the fact that I feel that these things are important. It also doesn't change the fact that most younger people don't think these things are important. I'm even starting to wonder myself...

so who exactly would you consider to be the most talented, hardest working, most able band in the the world ?

i personaly don't want my favourite bands to get grade eight in their instruments and knuckle down to working 10 hours a day, 48 weeks a year.

i just want them to sound good.

steve.

Well, the music industry is all about what YOU want and screw everyone else, eh?

hehe

Well, it's a damn good thing that everyone isn't so willing to accept less than the best. Just don't try to represent your willingness to accept a lower common denominator and inferior quality as being more important than my desire and insistence for something more. By the very nature of your thinking, my preference is just as important as yours.

Cheers

[blaster78]

aye, thats exactly what i said obviously.

see that enourmous chip on your shoulder. life will be better if you remove that.

steve.

[Sauhaq]

Please, take the time to read this post. I do think it might be helpful.

I have a friend, who, in my own mind, wasn't really much of a musician at the time of this story, but more of a poser. He got his hands on a loop CD off the internet, fired up acid, combined some loops, and rendered to mp3. The result, sounded more professional and well composed then anything I had ever done at the time. (This was three years ago).

Two years later, we are sitting at a coffee shop, and he tells me,

"Remember that song I made a long time ago?"

"Yes."

"Well I found it on the internet. Only , its a little different. And someone else wrote it. He copied my tune."

"Well! Thats what you get for using a bunch of Acid Loops."

"Yeah. thats effed up. But I learned alot from Acid. And its loops. I think it was the ease factor, but I learned how music worked, how things can sound and how things should sound. Over the past year, I have noticed my use of pre-made loops begin to dwindle. I wouldn't be able to do what I do now if I hadn't messed around with that stuff back in the day."

This story is true. In every sense. After looking back and reflecting on what he said, I remember that I went through a phase like that myself. I used loops in -every- song. And as the years passed, they began to fade away. Every now and then, ill go searching for a beat to cut up, use, slice, destroy, but I haven't used it to fill the gaps for a very -very- long time. For me, and for alot of people, loops were a stepping stone. One that took me quite a while to step off of. However, I'm not saying that loops are entirely without merit. I have heard some great music made from loops and pre-made drum beats. Every now and then, Ill hear a song on the radio, and shout out loud "I HAVE THAT LOOP DAMMIT!". Its all about what loops mean to you, and what part they play, if any, in your music. I think it all boils down to what you want to achieve, what you want to better about yourself, and what you want to express. How this will be done, is always entirely up to you. We, the listeners, are merely the audience.

[Sascha Franck]

I place very little value to things such as "oh, I recognize that preset from Synth1", "that snare is from House Musique", "the pads are obviously from Atmosphere", yadda yadda. Sounds are made to be used.

Yeah - just imagine everybody would complain like "Gawd, did you really use your strat on that track again? Couldn't you just come up with a guitar sound of your own?"

i don't think your metaphors are relevant. loops are structure. presets are just sounds.

This is utter nonsense.
Take about any Absynth preset and it'll have WAY more of a structure than almost all of my rather simple drumloops which I'm using exactly for one reason: The sound.

anyway, using loops may not be about laziness, it may be about inability. loops are good for hobbyists.

Again, this is nonsense.
It has been asked allready: Why would they be good for hobbyists?

however, i've heard talented artists stoop to using loops sampled from other songs. i don't get it. i know they have talent, yet they steal from others

Did you ever use a standard chord progression such as C, F, G?
If so, you're a freaking thief as well! You're just stealing from others as you defenitely haven't invented that progression.
And it fits your "structure" point quite nicely - there's not much things being more predictable than most of our commonly used chord progressions.
The sole fact that chord progressions don't fall under any copyright doesn't change a single thing.

herodotus, it's about originality. it's about artistic control. it's about forming each part around the other. this applies to working alone or with others. it can be argued that a song was written around the loop, so it all fits. however there's no flexibility, nor originality. did i already say originality?

Just tell me, where's the originality in your Cmaj chord?
Oh, so you switched to microtonal compositions a long way back allready? Great, I'll let you off the hook then. Just don't expect me to listen to your music too much.
Perhaps your "all original music is for pros" statement should make it into the business. I mean, after all those pros might come up with something 100% original and in the end we might become used to microtonality and extended cacophony.

And btw, I'm pretty serious about these points.
To me, very often a predictable chord progression or a "stolen" melody part makes up way more for a recognizeable structure or overall sound than a drumloop which is just there to get you a stable beat.
Listeners do think the same. Try to have someone sing a melody of a given popular song. Then try to have them mimic the beat.
Average listeners don't give a freaking damn about whether a loop has been used or not. They may however very well give a damn if a melodic fraction of "Für Elise" has been used.
Maybe that's why we can get away with loops so easily.
Maybe that's bad.
Maybe it isn't.

I still use loops whenever I feel like.

[michat]

i agree with the point of "as long as its a honest representation of yourself"!

-but already-made loops and beats is very unoriginal

Yes, but if you need a specific sound of drums, it is better to use a loop with this specific sound, cut it and rebuild it to your desires.
I´m also one of those who say, as long it sounds good, it is totally irrelevant whether it is sampled from others or not.