KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:57 am

And yours is just ridiculous. It is perfectly clear that you have not invested any time or effort into finding a good, expressive keyboard synth/controller and learning how to use it. So the Continuum might suit you better - fine, but it doesn't do anything that I would want to do that I can't currently with the cheap, simple tools I already own.

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:01 am

Warmonger wrote:Spuddle, you should just quit right now. I, for one, think it's a very cool concept, and I would love to try one out. Being a violin player myself, I'm interested in the possibilities. But trying to convince someone else that your opinion is correct is futile, and no matter how eloquently you phrase your argument, Bones isn't going to change his mind, nor should he.

Quit trying to convince Bones I am right? I am just trying to provide a counter argument to his derogative statements so that the general KVR audience can make their own informed decision.

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:06 am

There's nothing it can do that rolf harris couldn't do with his wobbleboard

Lawnmower Of The Damned · Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:07 am

spuddle wrote:Sorry to hear that you couldn't dedicate yourself to an instrument because it was too hard to play.

Excuse me!? I play over a half dozen instruments and I'll thank you for not judging me based on what I do and don't play.

spuddle wrote:It's also a shame that you don't miss the element of vibrato from your playing because I feel it is one of the more major attributes (of many) that seperates one performer from another. Everyones vibrato is different.

Consider for a moment the possibility that we play different styles of music. Vibrato isn't a big part of black metal. Brutality and speed are the most important factors, and the detuning of strings under force is my greatest ememy.

Plus, too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. There's no reason to go overboard with vibrato all the time and make your guitars/synths sound like a goat. Or worse, like Stevie Nicks. She is the poster-child for too damn much vibrato all the f**king time.

Vibrato is just another trick that any good musician should be familiar with. It certainly isn't the most important in my book. I'd take pinched harmonics over vibrato any day. Unfortunately, no keyboard in the world is going to give you pinched harmonics

Reverse Engineer · Post by **Reverse Engineer** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:07 am

spuddle wrote:
Warmonger wrote:Spuddle, you should just quit right now. I, for one, think it's a very cool concept, and I would love to try one out. Being a violin player myself, I'm interested in the possibilities. But trying to convince someone else that your opinion is correct is futile, and no matter how eloquently you phrase your argument, Bones isn't going to change his mind, nor should he.
Quit trying to convince Bones I am right? I am just trying to provide a counter argument to his derogative statements so that the general KVR audience can make their own informed decision.

Sorry we're all stupid and so unimaginative we need you to tell us what's right for us and what's not.

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:09 am

BONES wrote:And yours is just ridiculous. It is perfectly clear that you have not invested any time or effort into finding a good, expressive keyboard synth/controller and learning how to use it. So the Continuum might suit you better - fine, but it doesn't do anything that I would want to do that I can't currently with the cheap, simple tools I already own.

I enjoy playing my friends AN1x and intend to start building my home studio and get a controller such as the Prophecy or similar when I move to a larger place later this year.

I happen to feel quite strongly about the lack of innovativation in the expressive elements in controllers. As mentioned earlier there are a lack of modern keyboards or synth instruments and I would like to encourage developers to focus more on this when they are designing their next generation of controller.

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:14 am

Also, I apologise if any of my comments come off as condenscending, I would prefer to keep away from the ol' flame wars and usual associated trolling.

I'll try and watch what I say in order maintain the focus on encouraging clean and healthy debate on what makes this Fingerboard a good (and not so good) instrument to have in your arsenal.

Warmonger · Post by **Warmonger** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:15 am

spuddle wrote:
Warmonger wrote:Spuddle, you should just quit right now. I, for one, think it's a very cool concept, and I would love to try one out. Being a violin player myself, I'm interested in the possibilities. But trying to convince someone else that your opinion is correct is futile, and no matter how eloquently you phrase your argument, Bones isn't going to change his mind, nor should he.
Quit trying to convince Bones I am right? I am just trying to provide a counter argument to his derogative statements so that the general KVR audience can make their own informed decision.

I figured out a long time ago that I'm going to disagree with Bones about 99% of the time. I think that most other regular posters at KVR have figured out how to coexist with people with whom they disagree. There's not much need for back and forth rehashing of arguments.

deastman · Post by **deastman** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:43 am

I don't really see the point of all this bickering back and forth about the pros and cons of an instrument which none of us can afford in the first place! Okay, I *could* afford one, but my wife would kill me.

I think it looks like a fun toy. For a small taste of what it would be like to use this thing, try using a Wacom tablet as a MIDI controller.

contrast · Post by **contrast** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:52 am

I also want to throw in that it does have real aftertouch as well, you can change the mapping of the z value between channel volume and AT. Not sure if you can still then have a variable velocity when you hit a note though? I'd like to find out.

Markleford · Post by **Markleford** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:55 am

deastman wrote:I think it looks like a fun toy. For a small taste of what it would be like to use this thing, try using a Wacom tablet as a MIDI controller.

Indeed (and I have).

However the Continuum is like having a long tablet with a stylus on the the end of each of your fingertips!

I'd love one of these. However, I'd hate to part with that much money!

No, BONES can't do what someone can do on this controller. But he's happy with what traditional keyboard and sundry other pedals and inputs can do, as applicable to his own music. That said, he's willing to throw down the gloves based upon a whim, so there's no reason to continue trying to convince him of anything.

- m

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:52 am

spuddle wrote:I enjoy playing my friends AN1x and intend to start building my home studio and get a controller such as the Prophecy or similar when I move to a larger place later this year.

So how then do you know how expressive the AN1x can be when all you've done is played your friend's, presumably not for anywhere near the length of time it would take to become proficient?

I happen to feel quite strongly about the lack of innovativation in the expressive elements in controllers.

As opposed to the almost daily innovations we read about for guitar. Spare me days, how can you be such an idiot!?!

As mentioned earlier there are a lack of modern keyboards or synth instruments and I would like to encourage developers to focus more on this when they are designing their next generation of controller.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, I'd reckon there are probably more "modern keyboards or synth instruments" than there have ever been. The fact that expressive control seems to be lacking is probably down to the two facts; that the market is probably more skewed towards the budget end than it has been in the past coupled with the fact that demand for expressive controllers is low. For both those things you can probably blame dance music but the fact remains that I don't believe for a second that a Continuum would be any more expressive than a decent controller keyboard.
Moreover, having played with a few touch controllers, like KAOSS Pad or Electroharmonix MiniSynth, the thing that I feel would definitely hold you back is that it sits there and doesn't move which, regardless of any of its other features, would almost certainly make it very difficult to make a connection with, especially for anyone who is used to playing keys.

spuddle · Post by **spuddle** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:56 pm

siriusbliss wrote:I tried it out at NAMM. VERY fun. Time flies by when you play it.

I am interested to know about how you (and any others who have played it) found the responsiveness of the controller to be.

Was it also quite a straight forwards process to begin transfering your knowledge of playing music (perhaps on a keyboard or a fretboard) to the surface of the controller? Or was it really radically different to anything you had tried before and in no way comparable?

I wonder who's to blame for turning Bones into a rather spiteful being?

Scot Solida · Post by **Scot Solida** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:31 pm

I have been planning to buy the shorter Continuum Fingerboard for some time now, and had it budgeted for this next month, but I keep getting sidetracked by other expenses which would also drive BONES up the wall (i.e. Odyssey, Fizmo, PPG 2.2).

The fact that it has direct hooks into Kyma makes it very desirable to me, and the Wacom support in Kyma only whetted my apetite for more.

BONES makes some good points about it (let's face it, whether you like him or not, BONES always makes a good point or two. I see him as a voice of reason around here...He may not do things the same way I do, but he backs up everything he says with his own actions, and he's never wasted a dime on a whim. Wish I could say the same!)...for most musicians, this is probably a huge waste of money that could be better put to use elsewhere. I probably wouldn't even consider it, if I were planning on using it as a MIDI controller, since, in that role, it has to adhere to the usual MIDI CCs and values, and such things are easily assignable using the wide variety of less expensive MIDI controllers available today. I'm not saying it wouldn't be right for someone else to use it in that fashion, but for me, it simply wouldn't be worth the bread.

However, when Symbolic Sound support hardware, they go whole hog. My CM Motor Mix is a completely different device when used with Kyma than with, say, Cubase. Kyma interacts with it very deeply indeed, and I couldn't imagine not having it. Before I got it, I used one of those Evolution MIDI controllers, and while it worked well enough with Kyma, it came nowhere close to the sort of integration offered by the Motor Mix. It doesn't just control Kyma, it gets inside of it. Ditto for the Wacom tablets. I expect no less from the Fingerboard.

But damn, that's a lot of green to spend. I see the thing as I would an entirely new instrument that I will have to dedicate a good deal of time to. Trouble is, what happens if I spend years practicing the thing and then it disappears from production? Will the one I buy last forever? Master a keyboard or a guitar, and you'll have plenty to choose from in the future if yours breaks. Can the same be said for this? I plan to still be making music in 20 years...

These are the things I must weigh before laying down nearly four grand...

thecontrolcentre · Post by **thecontrolcentre** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:10 pm

nice idea ... ridiculous price

is anybody actually planning to buy one of these?

OMG! watch this instrument in action