What keyboard - 88 keys hammer action

[kevink]

I've got a Fatar/Studiologic SL-880 Pro. 88 keys, real hammer action, aftertouch, multiple velocity response mappings to MIDI, and the most expressive action of any that I was able to try in France a year or two ago when I was shopping. It was also the least expensive weighted 88key action available at the time! As others have indicated, they may be a bit fragile for touring use, and it has only minimum MIDI controllers - foot pedal, pitch and mod wheels. But playing physical modelling synths with it is a revelation.

[llcoolj]

Hi there, I'm in the same boat - I'm looking for a 88 note piano weighted action that I can control VSTs from a laptop with - I have $4500 to spend on the entire new system - including the computer - any suggestions with respect to board, sounds and computer??

COnfused

llcoolj

[leonard]

Well, I dunno if it's been mentioned before (too lazy to read all the replies, but I would suggest:

Studiologic VMK-88
CME UF8 (I guess that's the name).

Yamaha P70 or Roland FP-2 if you're looking for a piano as well as a mk.

I'll soon have to make about the same decision with this priorities:

1 action
2 weight
3 price
4 master keyboard flexibility

I was impressed by the CME's action, but I think it's on the heavy side.

[Stupid American Pig]

It really is all about the HAMMER ACTION

[jupiter8]

Hammer action ?

[Stupid American Pig]

Hammer action ?

That is my new Myspace photo- thanks!

[llcoolj]

Well as far as I can see the VKM-188 is the goods on the MC hammer action account - typical swede. Check out the review at musictechmag. It may be a bit poor with respect to the controls. What about the Kawai MP4 or the Yamaha M08?
This is a nightmare...

:help:

[P.T.]

It's hard to figure out why this has to be so difficult.

I was at Guitar Center a few days ago and was fooling around with a Yamaha digital piano that was selling for $600 and it had a great keyboard. Better hammer action than any controller I ever tried.

Then I tried a Casio digital piano selling for $500 and it was better than any of the controllers.

Why is it that thay can make a good keyboard, put decent soungs in it and sell it for $500-600 and yet no company makes a plain controller with anywhere near as good as them even when charging roughly the same price like the Keystation 88?

I don't get it.

I may buy the Casio (it has midi outputs) and then get a control box with some knobs.

[kevink]

The answer to your question, P.T., is "economy of scale". The market for digital pianos is much, much larger than that for dedicated keyboard controllers. The Fatar/Studiologic weighted hammer controllers are cheap (in that same $500-600 dollar range) in large measure because they ship the same actions as components to instrument manufacturers like Kurtzweil. I personally liked the SL880Pro action better than the digital pianos I was able to try when I was shopping for a controller, but had I really found the best action in a Yamaha or Casio instrument, I would not have hesitated to buy one.

One thing to be careful of, however, in buying something like the Yamaha or Casio: verify that the MIDI output really does correspond to the hammer velocity. Integrated instruments don't generally work internally via MIDI, and the MIDI output may be something of an afterthought. For all I know, the Casio could have a brilliant action, but output all MIDI notes at the same, fixed, volume level (or, more likely, with a lame approximation of the internal dynamics). At least with the Studiologic, I get a full velocity curve - several selectable response curves, in fact - output to MIDI.

[llcoolj]

The Kawai MP4 has an outstanding action even when compared to the Fatar action and actions of more expensive stage pianos. It also has several velocity setings to cater for touch. I'm not entire certain about what the previous writer was talking about, but I assume it is catered for in the MP4 as it seems to transmit most MIDI output, including aftertouch for soft synths. Most of the controls are assignable, except the pitch/ mod wheels. Check out the review in the free download of this magazine:
http://www.keyboardplayer.com/freeissue.php
The VMK-188 (studiologic) would be the next best choice - it is a fair bit cheaper, however, apparently it has some irreponsive controls. A review of this is at this site:
http://www.musictechmag.co.uk/mtm/revie ... k-188-plus

I've done a lot of research on the web recently and these are the best solutions I could find to the problem of the 88 controller.

llcoolj

[P.T.]

The answer to your question, P.T., is "economy of scale". The market for digital pianos is much, much larger than that for dedicated keyboard controllers. The Fatar/Studiologic weighted hammer controllers are cheap (in that same $500-600 dollar range) in large measure because they ship the same actions as components to instrument manufacturers like Kurtzweil. I personally liked the SL880Pro action better than the digital pianos I was able to try when I was shopping for a controller, but had I really found the best action in a Yamaha or Casio instrument, I would not have hesitated to buy one.

One thing to be careful of, however, in buying something like the Yamaha or Casio: verify that the MIDI output really does correspond to the hammer velocity. Integrated instruments don't generally work internally via MIDI, and the MIDI output may be something of an afterthought. For all I know, the Casio could have a brilliant action, but output all MIDI notes at the same, fixed, volume level (or, more likely, with a lame approximation of the internal dynamics). At least with the Studiologic, I get a full velocity curve - several selectable response curves, in fact - output to MIDI.

If the Fatar/Studiologic keys are as good as the digital piano then I will look into those.

The problem is that I can't find anyone that stocks them where I live. The music stores here are not that good.

[bullshark]

It's hard to figure out why this has to be so difficult.
I was at Guitar Center a few days ago and was fooling around with a Yamaha digital piano that was selling for $600 and it had a great keyboard. Better hammer action than any controller I ever tried.

What was that, a P60? If so, very good action, yes, but no midi control options whatsoever, not even aftertouch on the board. If it had, I would have bought one.

Then I tried a Casio digital piano selling for $500 and it was better than any of the controllers.

I had one of those, good action but midi had trouble: it would double trigger every notes struck, unuseable for sequencing so I sold it.

Why is it that thay can make a good keyboard, put decent soungs in it and sell it for $500-600 and yet no company makes a plain controller with anywhere near as good as them even when charging roughly the same price like the Keystation 88?

Whish I knew the answer to that as well. Even if you're willing to pay more than that, but short of the mega workstation, there is nothing available. And even the mega workstation don't offer much as far as midi control; things like poly aftertouch, no keyboard made today offers that, at any price.

I don't get it.

Me neither.

I may buy the Casio (it has midi outputs) and then get a control box with some knobs.

Make sure you can return it without too much hassle.

[P.T.]

Thanks for the info on the Casio midi.
I don't know the model numbers. I didn't write them down.

[anzoid]

Additional question: anyone know who the SL880 Pro compares to the SL990 Pro? Thanks

[kevink]

The SL880Pro has a lower number, but as I understand it, it's actually a slightly better action than the SL990Pro. They seem to be phasing out the 880, so they're being deeply discounted these days, and for anyone who's tried them and likes them, now is the time to buy. Piano action keyboards are a deeply personal thing - llcoolj thinks the Kawai is better, whereas I tried the Kawai and the Studiologic SL880Pro in the same shop, and thought that the Studiologic won hands-down in terms of expressiveness.

The Studiologic VMK-188 is being billed as their new "flagship" keyboard controller, and it does have more in the way of programmable MIDI sliders, but I note that it's actually cheaper in official list price than the SL880Pro, and I do wonder if the action is as good.