Waves Over Priced? Maybe - Maybe not...

[defjamm]

I've tried a lot of those already and no way they are better than waves; not that I don't wish they were. But you have your opinion and I have mine and I know neither of us will change so...

Fair enough. Better is of course subjective but things like Aliasing, Phase anomalies and Distortion can be measured and some of the plugins that I've mentioned are technically superior to the waves equivalent, AFAIK.

Cheers!
bManic

that's true. who thinks, just because it is from waves and expensive doesn't know much about digital audio. the old pre-ren stuff is still single-precision for example. now maybe a lot of people wouldn't hear a difference in a blind test, but technically these plug-ins don't stand against newer designs(like from voxengo). that's one thing i like about voxengo, you can switch oversampling on and off and decide what sounds better on the material.

but i think waves have the best guis in the industry, that's something i don't like about voxengo(that others do like because of that), there are so many choices. waves guis are simple, logical and str8 forward but technically often not the best(but good enough for modern stuff).

@piracy: this market is so small...voxengo, psp, kjaerhus, elemental audio, urs, waves, wave arts, blue tubes...all have compressors, als have eqs, this small market is too saturated, not everybody can be successfull imho. + the excellent freeware stuff nowadays.

[ATS]

I've tried a lot of those already and no way they are better than waves; not that I don't wish they were. But you have your opinion and I have mine and I know neither of us will change so...

Fair enough. Better is of course subjective but things like Aliasing, Phase anomalies and Distortion can be measured and some of the plugins that I've mentioned are technically superior to the waves equivalent, AFAIK.

Cheers!
bManic

that's true. who thinks, just because it is from waves and expensive doesn't know much about digital audio. the old pre-ren stuff is still single-precision for example. now maybe a lot of people wouldn't hear a difference in a blind test, but technically these plug-ins don't stand against newer designs(like from voxengo). that's one thing i like about voxengo, you can switch oversampling on and off and decide what sounds better on the material.

but i think waves have the best guis in the industry, that's something i don't like about voxengo(that others do like because of that), there are so many choices. waves guis are simple, logical and str8 forward but technically often not the best(but good enough for modern stuff).

@piracy: this market is so small...voxengo, psp, kjaerhus, elemental audio, urs, waves, wave arts, blue tubes...all have compressors, als have eqs, this small market is too saturated, not everybody can be successfull imho. + the excellent freeware stuff nowadays.

like kjaerhus audio sais "Let's face it, we could talk data, specifications, and features all day long, but it would not be the same as trying it out for yourself! "

[Aleksey Vaneev]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

I think when sales are dropping developer should not think about piracy, but should think about market/people's lifestyle trends, and his own competitive outlook. You can't fight piracy directly by any means (especially by prohibition). Prohibition may reduce percentage of piracy, but it won't increase sales to the same amount. According to numerous posts about problems with dongles, I can conclude that it can even lower the sales. So, the relation between piracy and incomes is very vague - and only in some very special (and mass) cases corellation between them can be drawn.

Just to make my thoughts about piracy clearer: in some cases you absolutely can't do anything about piracy because it may be the result of country's economical situation. In that case even by reducing piracy to zero you won't make any income in that country. And likewise if marketed product is 'worse than average' even extinction of piracy won't give its author any additional income.

Very often piracy is demonstrated on the example of music business billion dollar sales drop happened several years ago - P2P networks were blamed for it. But shortly after iTunes showed a huge growth - despite several huge P2P networks' existence. This again shows a very vague economical nature of piracy.

I now think piracy is more of a 'convenience' problem (or, alternatively, problem of 'value'). Customer's monetary expense has a high weight in that problem, but it is not the only variable of this equation.

.. thanks for blessings.

[defjamm]

@ATS: sure, i like waves. but i don't understand why they don't update some of their plug-ins, especially when i look at the high prices. their mastering bundle is 900$ in the shop...what the f**k, so much money for old plug-ins that even don't upsample...i can get technically way better plug-ins for less money and without wup.

[AVBunyan]

i can get technically way better plug-ins for less money and without wup.

For instance - I'm interested - what are you thinking of here? - I'm all ears

God bless

[lordvader48]

My modus operandi: It it has an Ilok or other dongle - it doesn't exist.

Waves plugins, therefore do not exist.

[keyman_sam]

I think blockfish is one of the best effects i have. Solid compression/limiting. I just LOVE IT!!

[defjamm]

i can get technically way better plug-ins for less money and without wup.

For instance - I'm interested - what are you thinking of here? - I'm all ears

God bless

instead waves lin eq -> psp neon hr
waves lin mb -> to be honest i don't use multiband that
much, but for transparent mixbus-
compression i would take psp mastercomp
or voxengo marquis over everything from
waves...or soniformer(but that one is too
complicated for me)
waves l2/l3 -> elephant 2, the new kjaerhus one and g-clip(free)
or you could go with the uad-1 and the mastering-tools, no wup.

waves mastering bundle -> onlineshop-price 900$
waves l3 -> 600$

psp neon hr + mastercomp -> 550$
elephant 2 + soniformer + marquis -> 220$
kjearhus mpl-1 -> 100$

total 870$, no wup, technically better and way more options.

or instead of the waves mastering package izotope ozone 3 -> 250$

or a voxengo mastering bundle: marquis, gliss, soniformer, curve and elephant -> 390$

the new kjearhus-mastering-plugins should have also a nice price and quality.

[AVBunyan]

instead waves ....

I cannot find fault with your choices - The PSA and Kjearrhus look interesting - Not sold on Voxengo Mastering yet for 2 reasons...

1. I'm a "derpis" (family name for dumb, etc.) when it comes to mastering.

2. Just not sold yet on Voxengo Compressors yet...I said yet...

Honestly after re-evaluating I started out with Sonar 4/5 and Sonitus plugs (which I have really grown to like) - then bought Waves Musicians Bundle II (which I love and are my go-to plugs now) and finally the Waves Native Power Pack (which I really liked at first but have learned that I could actually live without) - my limiter to replace the L1 would be Elephant.

God bless

[munchkin]

i can get technically way better plug-ins for less money and without wup.

For instance - I'm interested - what are you thinking of here? - I'm all ears

God bless

instead waves lin eq -> psp neon hr
waves lin mb -> to be honest i don't use multiband that
much, but for transparent mixbus-
compression i would take psp mastercomp
or voxengo marquis over everything from
waves...or soniformer(but that one is too
complicated for me)
waves l2/l3 -> elephant 2, the new kjaerhus one and g-clip(free)
or you could go with the uad-1 and the mastering-tools, no wup.

waves mastering bundle -> onlineshop-price 900$
waves l3 -> 600$

psp neon hr + mastercomp -> 550$
elephant 2 + soniformer + marquis -> 220$
kjearhus mpl-1 -> 100$

total 870$, no wup, technically better and way more options.

or instead of the waves mastering package izotope ozone 3 -> 250$

or a voxengo mastering bundle: marquis, gliss, soniformer, curve and elephant -> 390$

the new kjearhus-mastering-plugins should have also a nice price and quality.

Some very nice alternatives to Waves in that list. It just goes to show how many alternatives to overpriced plugins that are available.

I can tell you one statistic relating to the piracy debate. I will never buy an iLok or dongled plugin. Ever! So that's one more customer who will definitely buy products from any dev who refuses to use dongles. Dev's who use dongles have driven me away and encouraged me spend my money elsewhere.

Instead of trying to measure lost sales due to piracy, the iLok/dongle merchants may find it more enlightening gathering statistics on how many sales they've lost due to dongles. I bet it's a lot easier to work out.

[ATS]

instead waves ....

I cannot find fault with your choices - The PSA and Kjearrhus look interesting - Not sold on Voxengo Mastering yet for 2 reasons...

1. I'm a "derpis" (family name for dumb, etc.) when it comes to mastering.

2. Just not sold yet on Voxengo Compressors yet...I said yet...

Honestly after re-evaluating I started out with Sonar 4/5 and Sonitus plugs (which I have really grown to like) - then bought Waves Musicians Bundle II (which I love and are my go-to plugs now) and finally the Waves Native Power Pack (which I really liked at first but have learned that I could actually live without) - my limiter to replace the L1 would be Elephant.

God bless

I love that HarmoniEQ from Voxengo but I can't afford anything else right now.

[AVBunyan]

Again folks, not trying to defend all Waves products - all I'm really saying is their 2 smaller packages (Bundle II and Native Power) are their best and most useable bundles for the hobbyist like myself.

And really - will you at least agree somewhat... (forget the Ilok for a minute) that their Musicians Bundle II at $150 featuring the Ren Eq, RenComp, Ren Vox, Doubler and Super Tap is probaly their best package for the money ($30 a peice).

God bless

[Aleksey Vaneev]

AVBunyan, you could get Voxengo Voxformer, Voxengo Crunchessor and Voxengo Analogflux Suite for $143.88. You don't get double track FX, but you get a convolver, delay and chorus FX. Plus Voxformer covers EQ and vocal compression needs (and is very flexible) while Crunchessor is a track compressor for other type of sounds.

[Killvehicle]

Hey Aleksey ,Can I get Crunchessor for $4?? I have analog flux suite,
Elephant,
Curve EQ,
Harmonieq.

Even though Crunchessor is extremely cheap I just havent got it yet, but maybe my past purchases can equal some sort of bundle??


You know im joking, but if perhaps you would entertain my childish offer, wink..

[Aleksey Vaneev]

You can order Pristine Space and add Crunchessor to that - and it will cost $8 only.