how do you write?

[ugo]

The best stuff comes from working though. You sit down like it was a job and work at it everyday. It's called practice. If you just cut out 1 TV hour a day and practice the craft you'll get better.

Stop spending your time at programming and concentrate on music?

in the spirit of both the above suggestions, i do plan to spend much more time writing than i have been. but i also need to get myself to somehow reach beyond where i have been in my writing and break out of the creative rut. there have many been times, espeically before i got into SE, when i would do nothing else by try to write music for months and years on end...and still only come up with a steady flow of uninspired, unfinished junk.

without persistance, i certainly cant expect to make any great strides. but i also need to find a way beyond where i have been creatively, and from past experiance it would seem that only putting more time into writing is not in and of itself a cure to the whole problem. there is something else going on here that is stifling my creativity (in regard to songwriting) but i havent found the solution yet.

anything else about your songwriting process you'd like to mention?

My tracks stem unhindered dirictly from my sub-consciousness, the only part of myself I can always rely upon for disclosing ugly truth and self-honesty. I'm usually in a near(or occassionally absolute) self-hypnotic state and at best my conscious role is restricted to passenger status during the creative proccess, which is usually VERY rapid.

you're very lucky there donovan. i have never been able to tap into my sub-conscious so easily, if at all. too many walls, i guess.

[tomg]

in the spirit of both the above suggestions, i do plan to spend much more time writing than i have been. but i also need to get myself to somehow reach beyond where i have been in my writing and break out of the creative rut. there have many been times, espeically before i got into SE, when i would do nothing else by try to write music for months and years on end...and still only come up with a steady flow of uninspired, unfinished junk.

For instant gratification and a guaranteed rut buster there is nothing like Kinetic 2. Within 20 minutes of opening the box I had completed a tune. For $79 bucks it's killer deal. If you're a Cakewalk customer it's a $59 no brainer. You might be able to buy Music Composer DL version for $29 and get the $59 price. I'm not sure but you could ask. That's a powerful rewire combo and it would be like getting Composer for $9 bucks.

While I'm writing this I thought I'd ask. I'm on hold right now..... anyway..

It's billed as a groove box and it is indeed a groove box. It's what it does beyond that as a pattern sequencer and VST/DX host that interested me initially but this thing is fun fun fun!

ftp://ftp.cakewalk.com/pub/Images/Kinet ... _RAW-2.wmv

Well... I'm still on hold when they pick-up I'll post the answer.

[tomg]

I was wrong it's "Music Creator" and Cakewalk sez you can actually buy the DL version for $29 and get the $59 price on Kinetic 2. Cool!

Music Creator is no doubt one of the best bargains ever for $9 dollars!

[Sickle]

My tracks stem unhindered dirictly from my sub-consciousness, the only part of myself I can always rely upon for disclosing ugly truth and self-honesty. I'm usually in a near(or occassionally absolute) self-hypnotic state and at best my conscious role is restricted to passenger status during the creative proccess, which is usually VERY rapid.

you're very lucky there donovan. i have never been able to tap into my sub-conscious so easily, if at all. too many walls, i guess.

Not enough, I'd say. You need to learn how to stop second-guessing yourself. You're an admitted gear-addict, and like many others, you yearn for magic bullets that you already possess, several you've even made personally.

You're a great Musician, I've listened to many of your tracks.

Trust yourself and just let go. You don't tap your sub-conscious, it taps you once you get out of it's way.

Cheers,
D

[CypherOne]

some happy accidents, but mostly unhappy ones. I never learn...

[Sickle]

I never learn...

Liar.

[deaf dunderkwac]

I never learn...

Liar.

I'd start worrying if you stopped learning...
But I love to repeeeat my same mistakes

[eduardo_b]

For instant gratification and a guaranteed rut buster there is nothing like Kinetic 2. Within 20 minutes of opening the box I had completed a tune.

So tell me, you don't feel like you're "cheating?"

I've tried Kinetic and thought "this is too easy." It's almost painting by numbers. Can't decide if I'm really creating anything or simply assembling music.

You obviously don't have an issue with it, and I'd like your insight about why.

[tomg]

For instant gratification and a guaranteed rut buster there is nothing like Kinetic 2. Within 20 minutes of opening the box I had completed a tune.

So tell me, you don't feel like you're "cheating?"

I've tried Kinetic and thought "this is too easy." It's almost painting by numbers. Can't decide if I'm really creating anything or simply assembling music.

You obviously don't have an issue with it, and I'd like your insight about why.

You're right it's cheating but not any more that using a hardware groove box. Not that I would actually do that. I don't think I'd put out a tune made with K2 presets and call it "mine" anymore that I'd use sample loops at all but that doesn't mean it's not fun. It's nice to have tools. Especally ultra-cool stuff that works as well as K2. It's the perfect place to remix for somebody else..

Even though you get a lot it's not limited to what you get, it's easy to create your own patterns and use your own samples. Back in the Amiga days I had a extreamly productive pattern based bass and drum sequence that worked a lot like K2. As a matter of fact I still have it right here on the HDD with my Amiga emulator. I'm never going to let it go until I find a replacement. I'm new to K2 and it may be just the latest in a long line of candidates but I have a real good feeling about it. It may even be better.

If I was going to do any sort of dance/electronica I'd want to use K2 and if I used sample loops I might not even care about using presets. Maybe we sould start a K2-Tunes thread where people can just post the fun stuff they are doing with K2 presets without having to worry about being "artistic". I might even go first.

[eduardo_b]

You're right it's cheating but not any more that using a hardware groove box. Not that I would actually do that. I don't think I'd put out a tune made with K2 presets and call it "mine" anymore that I'd use sample loops at all but that doesn't mean it's not fun. It's nice to have tools. Especally ultra-cool stuff that works as well as K2. It's the perfect place to remix for somebody else..

So, I read your reply and start thinking about how I naturally assume that when ugo asks about how others write, he's referring to writing from scratch, using only our inner creativity. But then I wonder why that was my automatic assumption.

You say wouldn't make something in K2 and call it yours. But why? For anyone who uses presets, loops or samples, at what point does the resulting song become theirs? And, given that similar drum patterns and chords are used both by those who write from scratch and those who use them as presets or loops, why is the former more "original" than the latter?

Are these lines more arbitrary than we think they are?

[RTaylor]

Stop spending your time at programming and concentrate on music?

in the spirit of both the above suggestions, i do plan to spend much more time writing than i have been. but i also need to get myself to somehow reach beyond where i have been in my writing and break out of the creative rut. there have many been times, espeically before i got into SE, when i would do nothing else by try to write music for months and years on end...and still only come up with a steady flow of uninspired, unfinished junk.

without persistance, i certainly cant expect to make any great strides. but i also need to find a way beyond where i have been creatively, and from past experiance it would seem that only putting more time into writing is not in and of itself a cure to the whole problem. there is something else going on here that is stifling my creativity (in regard to songwriting) but i havent found the solution yet.

Staying creative is a 24 hour a day job. Personally, I make learning {concepts, techniques, etc} the focus of most stuff. I can get energized pretty easily that way. Not programming is a way of regaining focus... not just a suggestion as to how to spend your time.

Best bets for inspiration... forget everything you know {it's constraining} and experiment... pull everything out of the kitchen cabinets and spend some time recording sounds... wander through town with a tape recorder, etc. Pick a technique and make music with an eye to learning it. Pick a concept and come up with ways to learn and illustrate it. Carry a notebook. Focus every minute of your day on achieving one goal. Develop an obsession...

[tomg]

You say wouldn't make something in K2 and call it yours. But why? For anyone who uses presets, loops or samples, at what point does the resulting song become theirs? And, given that similar drum patterns and chords are used both by those who write from scratch and those who use them as presets or loops, why is the former more "original" than the latter?

Are these lines more arbitrary than we think they are?

I would much rather use my own beats and patterns if I'm going to call it my music..

[ugo]

For instant gratification and a guaranteed rut buster there is nothing like Kinetic 2.

really? i didnt realize kinetic 2 was cool. i'll check it out.

You need to learn how to stop second-guessing yourself.

i know you're right about that...

You're an admitted gear-addict, and like many others, you yearn for magic bullets that you already possess, several you've even made personally.

...and about that too.

Trust yourself and just let go. You don't tap your sub-conscious, it taps you once you get out of it's way.

very interesting. oddly enough, i really never thought about it that way, but that certainly does make a lot of sense.

Best bets for inspiration... forget everything you know {it's constraining} and experiment... pull everything out of the kitchen cabinets and spend some time recording sounds... wander through town with a tape recorder, etc. Pick a technique and make music with an eye to learning it. Pick a concept and come up with ways to learn and illustrate it. Carry a notebook. Focus every minute of your day on achieving one goal. Develop an obsession...

i've been threatening to buy a portable recorder of some sort for years now. i would really like to work with the audio equivalent of "found objects." i've got a few sample cds like that and i built ironhead to kind of be like that, but i would like to grab my own samples from the real world too.

every year my brother and i pick an auto race to go to (formula 1, grand am, etc.) and there are some great sounds in the pits that i'd love to caputure and write with. (oddly enough, few are picked for the car sound sample cd's that race enthusiasts produce.)

I would much rather use my own beats and patterns if I'm going to call it my music..

i used to be against using any loops at all. eventually i gave in with drum loops because im just not all that good at drum programming. i still dont usually just use a single drum loop on its own though. i'll stack several up, include sliced bits, add drums of my own overtop, add my own accents, etc.

i cant get into using other people's melodic loops though. then i really do feel like im arranging/remixing rather than writing something of my own. however, i have no qualms about using other people's presets along with my own. even if every sound isnt mine, at least the note selection is.

[eduardo_b]

i used to be against using any loops at all. eventually i gave in with drum loops because im just not all that good at drum programming. i still dont usually just use a single drum loop on its own though. i'll stack several up, include sliced bits, add drums of my own overtop, add my own accents, etc.

i cant get into using other people's melodic loops though. then i really do feel like im arranging/remixing rather than writing something of my own. however, i have no qualms about using other people's presets along with my own. even if every sound isnt mine, at least the note selection is.

Funny how we have different perceptions of these. I'm concerned with presets because of their potential recognizability, although I've come to the conclusion that this is more imagined than real. And it takes little effort to make them sound different enough.

Melodic loops are more of an issue because, to me, they represent someone else's music and can't really be altered in any meaningful way that makes them different enough. Melodies are like lyrics in this respect -- using them just ain't right.

Bass and drum patterns, on the other hand, seem to be in a separate category. Although it's possible they might be recognizable if truly unique, most of the time they seem generic to me. I would have virtually no qualms using these with or without modification as long as they were part of a song and not setting out there by themselves as the center of attention.

Of course, we each have our internal sense of what feels right or wrong when it comes to using these. The business of selling CDs and DVDs filled with loops and samples seems to be growing rapidly, so a lot of people must be okay with using them.

[deaf dunderkwac]

I have -0- problems anymore using drum loops as indeed, about a year ago I realized, whilst beating the skins, I was really just doing the same-o same-o stuff.
Since that moment of lucidity I started spending more time on other stuff.
The funny part to that story was even tho I was recording me playing drums, others thought they were samples and that the snare (in particular) didn't sound real...

funny and too true.