KVR Audio

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:09 pm

make sure you switch of the chorus/flanger section, one of the weak points of creamware fx...

it actually degrades the quality of the emulation...

sounds better dry.

i hope the converters on the plugiator are good enough to represent the quality of the synth plugs.

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:12 am

... but I'll probably buy it before Plugiator (and can see Plugiator in my future) but not likely to by the V-box or whatever for a lonnnnng while after seeing what it really can do instead of what they say it can do.

That's exactly the reason why I am so in doubt about plugiator... I look on what I see NOW, promises may be kept or not, updates and bugfixes may be done or not, but all that does not help to make a decision right NOW.

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:19 am

hifiboom wrote:...
i hope the converters on the plugiator are good enough to represent the quality of the synth plugs.

Got no answer from UseAudio to this question... so I guess at least 44.1KHz / 16bit

For my first tests I used AKG headphones and the sound seemed ok. Possibly the main outputs are even better...

For anyone who is after quality recording, plugiator might be a doubtful compromizing choice because you can't record it digital straight away... you always have to squeeze it back through another A/D conversion...

But ok, you can do cheap multitrack recording with big sounds this way

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:26 am

hifiboom wrote:make sure you switch of the chorus/flanger section, one of the weak points of creamware fx...
it actually degrades the quality of the emulation...
sounds better dry.

Sounds like there is not much left that's great...

I'm not into this M..g thing but its sounds like better save for a voyager, eh?

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:51 am

Hi Folks.

Just to let you know, I've contacted UseAudio this morning via mail and just got a first reply.

They sent me some first hints to check out and promised more on monday. They assume I've got a very early production unit with preliminary firmware. I think I trust this because the sounds in the box were different from the so called factory sounds in the manager software too. So I'll give the fixes a try.

I'll let you know how all turns out, most likely on monday.

I am still impressed how the service tries to help! I got the Vocodizer plugin with th ecurrent mail and assistance to recieve the serial code without registering online. So one thing I really can't complain about is the service.

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 3:22 pm

That's great that you were able to get the vocoder without registering - that was one of the most important (if not THE most important) things to you. Good luck!

Did you order it from audiomidi? Just wondering where you got an early firmware model.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:44 pm

TiUser wrote:In a way I also doubt we will see continuous service on plugiator OS, bugfixing on the availiable plugins or even really new stuff... only time will show that.

UseAudio is Frank Hund's company. He was the President of Creamware for a long time - since 2001 or even earlier, if I remember correctly - so you can tell he is committed to the platform. As you said, you've already already seen improvements to the software and I think it will continue to improve.

Ok, switching plugins takes some seconds, but that's not the real problem. What I really dislike are glitches when changing sounds - instead of muting for instance. That's definitely thumb down for life use.

The plug-in switching time probably won't go away given that the Scope cards and Noah have the same issue. They should be able to silence those glitches pretty easily, though.

Ok, try to change the delay time on the box while playing some notes... worst zipper noise I've ever heard...

This won't get fixed, all the Scope delays do the same thing. I actually don't agree that the delays all sound terrible - the Lightwave has a great cross delay and many of the Scope delays have terrific filters that make them sound pretty vintage - but I do turn off the chorus and delay on the Minimax every time, mostly because they mess up that tight, solid, up-front sound that I use the synth for in the first place.

What about Lightwave... a bit better technically I think, couldn't find serious flaws in a couple of minutes. The sound is interesting, the filters again perfom nice. The sound is "digital" so far - not what I am lurging for with such a box - but that's of course a matter of taste.

It's digital sounding by design yet still manages to have that punchy, upfront Creamware sound that most VSTi's lack. As a Scope user, I love having Lightwave as an alternative to the more vintage sounding synths, though I can understand that there's less of an appeal when you can only use one synth at a time.

The mic input seems to be a bit noisy - no problem for vocoding - and my keyboard has a noisegate for the mic input too... but it's another thing to consider...

They could probably add a noise gate pretty easily if you request it. The beauty of all this Scope-based stuff is it's modular and easily configurable.

I guess Pro12 and Prodyssey are of similar quality.

Pro12 has a similar character to the Minimax but adds the unison, some oscillators, and polyphony. To be honest, I'd probably just use Minimax for pads if I had the DSP available to me, my 6-DSP Scope card doesn't get as much polyphony as your Plugiator does and that's the main reason I use Pro12 for pads instead.

Without computer the thing is basically a single part preset module - no split, layer, mutlimode at all

You're making an interesting point now! Although I don't think they'll ever fix the plug-in loading time, I really can't see any reason why they should be able to offer splitting and layering options. You should bring this up to them!

I'm not into this M..g thing but its sounds like better save for a voyager, eh?

Minimax sounds more like a Minimoog than even most real analogs do. For example, if you were to listen to Minimax and my Moog Prodigy side-by-side, you'd probably prefer Minimax. To me, Minimax isn't a 100% perfect emulation but it's closer than anything else I've heard and adds a nice Pro One-ish kind of tightness to the sound that I really like.

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:19 pm

Dear uncle E

Thanks for the many comments...

I still think the box is ugly...

but you are so right, the sound is so addictive... I've just checked out some Minimax patches and I understand what you are talking about.

I own one of these real analogues, a Matrix 6R and I haven't heard anything digital that comes so close in terms of pressure than the creamware stuff... it's really amazing.

There is a huge risk I end up with more than one box if I consider the basic sound only...

and I accept all the flaws I hate...

I am in close Contact with UseAudio support and try to move all O can

I had a closer look on the Plugiator ASX board and it looks like this one could be easily used even without a CME keyboard... you just need a power supply and add two midi connectors... and get a plugiator without the fancy knobs. Sound parameters can totally controlled via midi, the Manager software does nothing else but sending all controllers to set up a sound, only via USB... I guess there is an ASX board inside each plugiator, the jacks are absolutely corresponding...

Arg... I think I am getting mad...

Getting back technically, well, you can even modulate the delay times on a virus TI without zipper noise by any sources...

Have a nice weekend...

TiUser · Post by **TiUser** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:24 pm

buscemi wrote:That's great that you were able to get the vocoder without registering - that was one of the most important (if not THE most important) things to you. Good luck!

Did you order it from audiomidi? Just wondering where you got an early firmware model.

Well, without online registration and entries in their database... I got the stuff via mail. The plugs are always tied to the hardware. It looks like there is no chance to buy one plugin and install it on 3 boxes...

forgot: ordered with the big "T" germany which sells allover europe and was one of the first who had the box in stock.

Anivoc · Post by **Anivoc** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:29 pm

Just got mine and out of the box and plugged it in. I was in the room for about an hour and stepped out to ask my wife to pinch me cause I had to be dreaming.

To qualify here I am an old school keyboardist. 54 years old. I own a real B3, I have played many synths over the years.. Own an original Roland sh3, an Elka string ensemble and one of the first Kurzweil k250 etc.

That said the VSTi thing is amazing but the fact that you need a computer be it a mac, pc or a rackmount pc running on linux (i.e.Receptor) makes for a struggle playing live on the fly.

I've read the comments so far and I have to kind of laugh. For @ $500 U.S. the damn unit just for the B4000 is worth it.

I used an old yamaha dx-7 to send midi and ran the audio out of the plugiator through a volume / expression pedal. For the hammond sound I ran it through a motion pro T.

If you want some fast excellent Hammond sounds they are there.
They had me on preset #1 on the minimax ( mini moog copycat) SWEET!

Mind you I have not even got into this unit via the PC. Once I tweak it I will have drawbars for the hammond at my finger tips and all my knobs for the minimax.

Though as mentioned layering would be nice..it's just not that animal. I finally have a moog and a hammond in a tiny little box I can take anywhere..

I have not heard a better mini moog knock off.. I can hardly wait to get in and really tweak it. As far as the hammond part of it, to be honest I haven't played the NI, but as previously mentioned I own a real B3 and I am very satisfied with the stock presets. I am sure once I get into this via the pc I will be placing an ad "B3 w /122 leslie for sale!"

IMO... The Plugiator is a winner and well worth the price of admission.

I have limited time to play with this right now but I will report back as I progress.

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:24 pm

OK, well instead of laughing at posts can you answer the point about getting a good rock organ sound that TIUser said he couldn't?

Anivoc · Post by **Anivoc** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:04 am

buscemi wrote:OK, well instead of laughing at posts can you answer the point about getting a good rock organ sound that TIUser said he couldn't?

Hmmm I kinda thought I did answer that question? I digress..

The Gold Standard of a "Good Rock Organ Sound" is the Hammond B3 with 1 or 2 122 leslie speakers overdriven. The plugiator provides many preset versions which sound very realistically like the B3 and.... above and beyond you have far more tweakability with it than you do a real B3 ....thus the Hammond B3 with 122 leslie for sale comment.

No offense intended in the "I have to kind of laugh" but for those that haven't had the priveledge to lug a hammond around to gigs just to get "the sound" the advent of modules that emulate has been long in coming but arrived @ 10 years ago with the Roland VK7, Voce DMI 64 Mark II, Voce V3 etc.
They were all more expensive than this box and this box has 10 times the power with at minimum equal or better Hammond emulation. Thus the chuckle..Back in the 70's I had to walk 50 miles barefoot in the snow uphill both ways to the gig and back with my Hammond on my back and you guys are complaining about it's weakness in leslie simulation!
In regards to the Hammond sounds the Plugiator is every bit as good as the Voce v5 which people paid over $800 for with lots more capabilities.

Nevertheless just the B4000 and the Minimax make this module a very nice "bargain" add a vocoder and all the other potential plugs and this is a steal.

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:24 am

Ah yes, we should all have age in our profiles so you would realize not everybody here is a young whippersnapper in need of schooling. Someone didn't like the organ sounds as much as you did and you may feel more qualified than he is to make the distinction but if it doesn't sound good to him, it isn't good for him. Oops now I am the one digressing. You've been here a while and longer than me, but a first post basically cheerleading with snark at other members' expense based on your "qualifications" didn't sit right. However, I do see your point but the only point to really be made is if it is good for you, good for you. If it isn't good for TIUser why laugh at him?

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:34 am

just for the record: I don't think there was anything wrong with Anivoc's post.

Logically this makes me however conclude that there's something wrong with your finger-pointing at him, buscemi.

Personally I thoroughly appreciated and even enjoyed both reviews b.t.w. .

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:16 am

jens wrote:just for the record: I don't think there was anything wrong with Anivoc's post.

Logically this makes me however conclude that there's something wrong with your finger-pointing at him, buscemi.

Personally I thoroughly appreciated and even enjoyed both reviews b.t.w. .

I liked both as well. Didn't I state that both had valid points and what's good for one might not be good for the other? And I didn't cheerlead or bash either way, uh oh - though I might have said "fair and balanced" but that association is one I do not want to have

Seriously, though, I didn't mean to ruffle feathers I thought we were supposed to express ourselves around here. Edit - which does mean that I honor those expressing themselves in this thread as well and, as I said, I see points in both users' insight.

Anybody got a Plugiator yet ?