Vintage is overrated. Lesson learned(rant)

[paladium]

The FB01 is a Yamaha DX and digital and obviously does not have the same chip as a Korg. ...so there....[/quote]

you are obviously not in the know my friend , yamaha purchased korg in 1987
2 korg fm synths were released (707 and its greater sibling) , the innards of those two were made by yamaha (4 operator fmsynths with easier enveloppe generators) the korg badge was just put on for show, are these worth hunting
down , not really , look for 14 bit old yamaha fm like the dx21 or dx100
, the noisy DAC quantization errors of those give them lot of character (something fm7/8 lacks)

[daniel_baum]

look for 14 bit old yamaha fm like the dx21 or dx100
, the noisy DAC quantization errors of those give them lot of character (something fm7/8 lacks)

What you call "character" in a DX21 sounds more like an annoying hiss to me. On the occasions that I've used my DX21 in my music, I've done my best to filter it out.

[JimmiG]

Repairing analogue synths is getting harder. The synths themselves are now very old and all sorts of things are failing on them now.

I wonder how much this influences the sound. I mean, does any Jupiter or Oberheim etc. today sound the same as it did 20-30 years ago? Or do people confuse attributes like warm, "analog", "phat" etc. with just plain "broken sounding"? Even components that haven't yet failed must have degraded quite a bit in 30 years...

If someone traveled back in time and brought with him modern digital recording equipment, and got a synth straight from the factory - would he maybe find it sounds sterile, thin or even "digital" like a VA?

[Acid Mitch]

If someone traveled back in time and brought with him modern digital recording equipment, and got a synth straight from the factory - would he maybe find it sounds sterile, thin or even "digital" like a VA?

No.

[Acid Mitch]

I love examples like this that sound like they could have been made with any decent VA VSTi. How are these sounds not bland?

Do you have examples of a V.A doing those sounds ?

Oh yeah, I made a few with those exact sounds... but my dog ate it. Try this in the meantime.

http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... ase_Me.mp3

Great example of what Living Sounds was talking about.
Poly Ana comes close but doesn't quite cut it.

[Uncle E]

If someone traveled back in time and brought with him modern digital recording equipment, and got a synth straight from the factory - would he maybe find it sounds sterile, thin or even "digital" like a VA?

No.

Quite right, one would simply have to hear a Voyager or Andromeda to know that's not the case. That said, I have a feeling that all those fat, fuzzy Minimoogs I've owned probably sounded like Voyagers when they were new. My excellent condition Prodigy sounds an awful lot like an ATC-1.

[daniel_baum]

Repairing analogue synths is getting harder. The synths themselves are now very old and all sorts of things are failing on them now.

I wonder how much this influences the sound. I mean, does any Jupiter or Oberheim etc. today sound the same as it did 20-30 years ago? Or do people confuse attributes like warm, "analog", "phat" etc. with just plain "broken sounding"? Even components that haven't yet failed must have degraded quite a bit in 30 years...

If someone traveled back in time and brought with him modern digital recording equipment, and got a synth straight from the factory - would he maybe find it sounds sterile, thin or even "digital" like a VA?

I've wondered about this.

I have a JX-8P that's seen better days. All the sound functions work, but the screen doesn't, and it's been painted, presumably to cover up the battering it took during its life.

I was talking to another synth person recently and it turns out he used to own it. He told me not to try to fix it, because it sounds much fatter than any other JX-8P he has owned. He has another one, apparently in perfect condition, that he wants to sell, but I'm wondering whether I might have the better deal. . .

[living sounds]

Thanks for the mp3. Sounds great.
I was referring more to some peoples emulations of retro analog using "softsynths".
Not all, as some software emulations do come close, while many others will say "warm" analog sounds, but they just sound flat and muddy.

I get beat up quite a bit for pointing this out, but it's exactly why I find so many so-called "emulations" deceptive. They don't sound like the gear they're supposed to emulate.

[Acid Mitch]

I have a JX-8P that's seen better days. All the sound functions work, but the screen doesn't, and it's been painted, presumably to cover up the battering it took during its life.

I doubt it's the screen and paintjob affecting the sound.

[himalaya]

Thanks for the mp3. Sounds great.
I was referring more to some peoples emulations of retro analog using "softsynths".
Not all, as some software emulations do come close, while many others will say "warm" analog sounds, but they just sound flat and muddy.

I get beat up quite a bit for pointing this out, but it's exactly why I find so many so-called "emulations" deceptive. They don't sound like the gear they're supposed to emulate.

How about VAs that don't try to emulate any specific hardware analog synth, but emulate general analog characteristics ?

[daniel_baum]

I have a JX-8P that's seen better days. All the sound functions work, but the screen doesn't, and it's been painted, presumably to cover up the battering it took during its life.

I doubt it's the screen and paintjob affecting the sound.

Obviously not. What I meant was that if the synths is basically worn out, maybe it really does make the sound fatter in some way.

[zerocrossing]

I love examples like this that sound like they could have been made with any decent VA VSTi. How are these sounds not bland?

Do you have examples of a V.A doing those sounds ?

Oh yeah, I made a few with those exact sounds... but my dog ate it. Try this in the meantime.

http://www.admiralquality.com/products/ ... ase_Me.mp3

Great example of what Living Sounds was talking about.
Poly Ana comes close but doesn't quite cut it.

Post a better sounding all vintage analog track or stfu.

[living sounds]

How about VAs that don't try to emulate any specific hardware analog synth, but emulate general analog characteristics ?

I don't think VAs do a convincing job emulating the qualities I want and find in some analog synths. Try and make a simple squarewave sequence like the one in the example from the SH-2 with a VA. Get it as punchy, natural and with the sheen in the high end. I know I couldn't do it.
And I also couldn't do it with the more modern synths, as evidenced by the example. Now the SH-2 has discrete osciallators, filters and envelopes. The others don't. What I'd really like to see is that same synth rebuild using modern components, and similar replacements for discontinued parts. To see if it's just the discrete design, or if the old components are the reason for some of the qualities of the sound. Oberheim supposedly did just that with the new SEM, I hope we get comparisons between the old and the new one soon.

[zerocrossing]

I have a JX-8P that's seen better days. All the sound functions work, but the screen doesn't, and it's been painted, presumably to cover up the battering it took during its life.

I doubt it's the screen and paintjob affecting the sound.

Obviously not. What I meant was that if the synths is basically worn out, maybe it really does make the sound fatter in some way.

Other than old caps drying what else "wears" out in an old synth circuitry wise? We're not talking about vacuum tubes here.

[bootsie]

Is vintage all we have?