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standalone · Post by **standalone** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:10 pm

Yes, I always use Cubase's compressor for sidechaining, obviously. That's a good selling point for Fab Filter's one.

Big Tick · Post by **Big Tick** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:54 pm

What I don't understand is why Steinberg decided to add the new VST3 features in a way that was completely incompatible with VST2.x. Why for f's sake, redefine everything and render obsolete something that worked, and could be used to implement whatever new features they wanted ?

It almost looks like a young, new developer, raised with Java, was given the task to add a few new features to VST, maybe the sample-accurate automation thing... and when he looked at the 2.4 SDK, he was horrified at its obvious C legacy. " What ? No interfaces ? no proxies of factories implementing a facade pattern ? This is dinosaur code ! Modern programmers don't do things like this any more !" Then somehow, this clever chap teamed up with an equally bright genius in marketing, and together they found a way to convince Steinberg management to throw the old sdk to the bin, and deliver a brand new, shiny, modern one. Well done guys. The software industry needs more people like you. Oh wait... the software industry is full of people like you...

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:04 pm

Urs, AU market is 4 times smaller than VST market. And it has got a lot of troubles as well. From our experience, basically only Logic Pro and Ableton Live work fine.

Steinberg should ditch VST3 altogether - it does not make anybody happy (except the perfectionist lovers of "software design art"), only unhappy.

LXNDR1 · Post by **LXNDR1** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:50 pm

it's up to the vox populi both from the consumer and industry sides to blackball this standard an force Steinberg to scrap it or be left in minority

kelldammit · Post by **kelldammit** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:33 pm

LXNDR1 wrote:it's up to the vox populi both from the consumer and industry sides to blackball this standard an force Steinberg to scrap it or be left in minority

well, this is basically what happened with vst3. and what was steinberg's response? vst3.5!

basically steinberg IS in the minority. apparently the only users who need vst3.x to take advantage of mostly old features are their own daw users. ironic, that.
they can't force the standard on anyone else, because the only thing that COULD force such a standard would be OS-level stuff, and MS clearly isn't interested in doing so. Since steinberg took the lead back in the day, and everyone else just adopted their system, they call the tune. whether anyone chooses to dance to it is another matter entirely.

k

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:44 pm

Well, it looks like I can't afford not to do VST3.5 - that's what happens when your most influential customers insist on having it

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:49 pm

Steinberg clearly loses the marketing benefits it could gain by developing enhancements on top of VST2.4 (it isn't technically hard to add additional buses, sample-accurate automation, etc - while no things like messaging subsystem nor UI-audio decoupling are required at all while VST2.4 is still supported). Steinberg could "shake" other host developers through a quicker adoption of VST enhancements by plug-in developers, but with VST3 nobody moves. 4% VST3 (of VST) market share after 3 years? It's a joke, I won't do anything for such a small reward.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:51 pm

Urs wrote:Well, it looks like I can't afford not to do VST3.5 - that's what happens when your most influential customers insist on having it

What is so special in VST 3.5?

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:04 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
Urs wrote:Well, it looks like I can't afford not to do VST3.5 - that's what happens when your most influential customers insist on having it
What is so special in VST 3.5?

Note expressions. Desired by classical/film composers.

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:26 pm

Urs wrote:
Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
Urs wrote:Well, it looks like I can't afford not to do VST3.5 - that's what happens when your most influential customers insist on having it
What is so special in VST 3.5?
Note expressions. Desired by classical/film composers.

I suppose it will depend on the actual implementation. VST3 is great, too, but in theory.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:27 pm

Urs wrote:Well, it looks like I can't afford not to do VST3.5 - that's what happens when your most influential customers insist on having it

nice...... yeah for HZ

rsp

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:27 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:I suppose it will depend on the actual implementation. VST3 is great, too, but in theory.

Of course. We havn't done it yet, but demand was expressed. We'll see.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:29 pm

I have been a SB customer for 9 years, I am sure many have been longer. please don't hold your breath for them revisiting 2.4...... t hey are even more stubborn than apple....
Aleksey the irony is that it is your stuff and UAD stuff and some NI stuff that I would most love to get in vst3... most others it doesn't matter to me personally.
rsp

Aleksey Vaneev · Post by **Aleksey Vaneev** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:36 pm

zvenx wrote:Aleksey the irony is that it is your stuff and UAD stuff and some NI stuff that I would most love to get in vst3... most others it doesn't matter to me personally.

Unfortunately, after many years of experience developing for VST hosts, numerous crash reports in one VST host or another, a lot of time devoted to communication with host developers, VST3 clearly looks like a royal pain in the a** to everybody - plug-in, host developers and, most importantly, customers.

Beside that, it seems to me that Steinberg does not want to admit that VST FX and VST instruments are vital part of the music production chain - much like FX units and synthesizers in their analog days. A lonely mixing board with a tape recorder won't get you far.

Music Engineer · Post by **Music Engineer** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:01 pm

i was just on the steinberg site - the latest release there seems to be VST 3.1 - is VST 3.5 not yet available? (and what about 3.2, etc., btw.?) if i'm not mistaken, 3.5 was just introduced this NAMM? does anyone around here know when it will be available?

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