KVR Audio

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat May 07, 2011 3:55 pm

tapper mike wrote:
As much as I agree that learning notation can help anyone wishing to understand music. Nothing and I mean nothing prepares one like actually writing music.

And the preparation for that is a lot of experience with music. This new world of 'computer musicians' (that's a Special Olympics waiting to happen there) is bizarre, you have people actually entertaining the idea they're fit to write music without the first clue going in.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Sat May 07, 2011 4:51 pm

jancivil wrote:
tapper mike wrote:
As much as I agree that learning notation can help anyone wishing to understand music. Nothing and I mean nothing prepares one like actually writing music.
And the preparation for that is a lot of experience with music. This new world of 'computer musicians' (that's a Special Olympics waiting to happen there) is bizarre, you have people actually entertaining the idea they're fit to write music without the first clue going in.

There does seem to be a lot of that happening anymore...what happened to actually listening to various material, or playing your guitar to something-understanding how melody is constructed-

Writing music is more than just learning notation-it means learning how to listen as well...

gdev1981 · Post by **gdev1981** » Sun May 08, 2011 11:18 am

jancivil wrote:
tapper mike wrote:
As much as I agree that learning notation can help anyone wishing to understand music. Nothing and I mean nothing prepares one like actually writing music.
And the preparation for that is a lot of experience with music. This new world of 'computer musicians' (that's a Special Olympics waiting to happen there) is bizarre, you have people actually entertaining the idea they're fit to write music without the first clue going in.

What an unbelievably intolerant thing to say! This thread started with someone asking about a book to learn music theory without staff notation so implying people like him are unfit to write music seems a rather large (and judgemental) leap!

Your coarse reference to the 'Special Olympics' aside, what is wrong with people learning in different ways? At least the OP was trying to learn some music theory. There are plenty of music professionals I am sure who do not meet your high standards and yet they are successful and make good music.

Why must people conform to your idea of the right way of going in to music?

coquillo · Post by **coquillo** » Mon May 09, 2011 8:40 am

Back to mono. Back to figured bass. LOL

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon May 09, 2011 8:57 am

gdev1981 wrote:
jancivil wrote:
tapper mike wrote:
As much as I agree that learning notation can help anyone wishing to understand music. Nothing and I mean nothing prepares one like actually writing music.
And the preparation for that is a lot of experience with music. This new world of 'computer musicians' (that's a Special Olympics waiting to happen there) is bizarre, you have people actually entertaining the idea they're fit to write music without the first clue going in.
What an unbelievably intolerant thing to say! This thread started with someone asking about a book to learn music theory without staff notation so implying people like him are unfit to write music seems a rather large (and judgemental) leap!

Your coarse reference to the 'Special Olympics' aside, what is wrong with people learning in different ways? At least the OP was trying to learn some music theory. There are plenty of music professionals I am sure who do not meet your high standards and yet they are successful and make good music.

Why must people conform to your idea of the right way of going in to music?

These are not "high standards" rather basic requeirements. Regarding the "music professionals that are successful and make good music" - one thing doesn't necessarily comes with the other. Lots of "successful" so called professionals doesn't make good music, they just made a product that was well marketed and sold well. Good music is something deeper and different than that (although it can be successful too).

tomtoo · Post by **tomtoo** » Mon May 09, 2011 2:59 pm

fmr wrote: These are not "high standards" rather basic requeirements.

....
...

So how DO YOU divide .. good.. bad ..music ?

Is it depending on the academic degree of the musician ?

Greetings
Thomas

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:31 pm

tomtoo wrote:
fmr wrote: These are not "high standards" rather basic requeirements.
....
...

So how DO YOU divide .. good.. bad ..music ?

Is it depending on the academic degree of the musician ?

Greetings
Thomas

I think we can establish a minimum platform, as in any other art form (literature, cinema, theatre, poetry, painting, architecture, etc.). Anyway, if we don't reach a minimal basis (and nowadays this is extremely difficult, mainly due to the "noise" surrounding us) time will tell. Good music remains. Bad music vanishes.

tomtoo · Post by **tomtoo** » Mon May 09, 2011 3:37 pm

fmr wrote:
tomtoo wrote:
fmr wrote: Good music remains. Bad music vanishes.

At least you belief in humanity.

Edit says:
Good music , bad Music mhh hard to tell for myself , if music goes into my hard for me its good music.
Shure from an academic point of view , this is maybe a simple-minded point of view.
But when i listen to music it has to catch my hard , not my brain.

Music is to me like a kind of emotion amplifier.

If i like to dance and the music amplifies that wish, its great.
If i feel sad and the music makes me feel even sader ,its great.

Will my music taste remain forever ? Dont think so. But hopefully music as an emotion amplifier.

Greetings
Thomas

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:09 pm

FWIW, I have a fair amount of formal training in performance and theory, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's question.

For as long as I can remember, there has been a quest for interesting "alternate" controllers which could form the basis of new instruments. The past 15 years have been especially fertile ground for development of these things given the rapid advancement of our technology.

The invention of the 'piano roll' is nothing more than a simplified version of traditional music notation bowing to the needs of computer format.

And, if it is a simplified (or at least more accessible)version of traditional notation, what is wrong with learning theory from it?

Those who wish to dig deeper will. But why turn away other interested parties at the door?

Cheers
-B

coquillo · Post by **coquillo** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:23 pm

BERFAB wrote: The invention of the 'piano roll' is nothing more than a simplified version of traditional music notation bowing to the needs of computer format.

-B

I think you're being rather unfair to the genius who invented this iconic device. When you disregard classic theory and dogma for a while and think of the black keys as training wheels for music a whole new perspective opens up.

Did you see my proposed solution to the OPs problem?

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=

Ogg Vorbis · Post by **Ogg Vorbis** » Mon May 09, 2011 4:39 pm

BERFAB wrote:FWIW, I have a fair amount of formal training in performance and theory, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with the OP's question.

Cheers
-B

I think it's unproductive to launch into a group of electronic dance musicians and berate them for not "doing it right."

The disadvantage I can see with piano roll or TAB and not learning notation is, what if you want to arrange something with flute or piano or trumpet, etc.? Printing off the notation view from a sequencer is not going to help you here.

Other than that, whatever gets the music going is fair game.

anomandaris1 · Post by **anomandaris1** » Mon May 09, 2011 5:14 pm

Piano roll was used in composition for first time by Schoenberg

seacouch · Post by **seacouch** » Mon May 09, 2011 6:31 pm

gdev1981 wrote: What an unbelievably intolerant thing to say! This thread started with someone asking about a book to learn music theory without staff notation so implying people like him are unfit to write music seems a rather large (and judgemental) leap!

By asking that question, the OP was subconsciously asking to be lectured and judged. Please make a note of it.

coquillo · Post by **coquillo** » Mon May 09, 2011 7:47 pm

Ogg Vorbis wrote: The disadvantage I can see with piano roll or TAB and not learning notation is, what if you want to arrange something with flute or piano or trumpet, etc.? Printing off the notation view from a sequencer is not going to help you here.

Other than that, whatever gets the music going is fair game.

Fortunately it's not an either or situation you can use whatever tool best fits the job.

gdev1981 · Post by **gdev1981** » Mon May 09, 2011 9:01 pm

seacouch wrote:
gdev1981 wrote: What an unbelievably intolerant thing to say! This thread started with someone asking about a book to learn music theory without staff notation so implying people like him are unfit to write music seems a rather large (and judgemental) leap!
By asking that question, the OP was subconsciously asking to be lectured and judged. Please make a note of it.

Music Theory books based on Piano Rolls not Staffs?