Improving music/keyboard skills... what to do

[jancivil]

Honestly some people are not musicians and no matter how hard they try to be they will never be musicians. And for them I'll say this. Find your muse elsewhere. Being a musician will not complete you as a person. There are plenty of forms of self expression to involve yourself with.

I completely disagree. If you can put your finger on a keyboard you are a musician. .

The world is full of advice such as "you can do anything if you put your mind to it" and "anything you put in you'll get back doublefold". Well I love mathematics, I have a good mind for the concepts behind a lot of maths theory, but I just suck at maths, the actual numbers. I tried hard to be a mathematician but it just wasn't in me. Try harder they say, but people are cruel. You have to accept that in order to do "x" you have to have some capacity to be "x-minded".

The upshot is that the world of maths has kept it's magic, it's mysterious, I'm interested in it, but can only really participate in reading books for lay people. The good thing is I can use this mystery to inspire the things I *am* good at.

This is a funny thing. I have, according to testing, an above-average aptitude for mathematics. I had achievement at a precocious level in some ways. I got terribly bored with the retarded pace of instruction in the retarded area of the world I was born in, and after a point I tuned out. I did not continue to work on it, and the outcome is: I will never become any kind of mathematician.

This is just a fact, I have no business asserting that I can, I know that. I have done more than 'touch the keyboard' there, but I have no business in the field because I did not take it seriously. If one day I decided to say I was, and I could not legitimately show I was, people would scoff, there would be no respect. Would I then be able to bitch about the 'smell of exclusivity'? Criminy.

But oh, suddenly it's music we are talking about and anybody, whatsoever, can be said to be a musician out of just the desire to do it! Amazing.

[jancivil]

Violinists walks into a recording studio with an orchestra and says "I'm a musician".. there will be some expectations involved.

DJ walks into a dance hall and says "I'm a musician", everyone in the place says "Me Too"

[Tricky-Loops]

But, I believe, the more of an understanding you have of the musical language the more options you have open to you in writing and creating music of all styles.

So a musician is someone who is constantly improving his/her musical skills. Someone who plays guitar once a few months I wouldn't call musician. But someone who works every day (or weekend) to improve his/her playing or producing skills, is a musician in all accounts.

[Bronto Scorpio]

- If you don't know the relationship between the hamonics in a sawtooth wave you are not a musician.

- If you never wrote a piece of generative music (or the algo behind it) you are not a musician.

- If you don't know the difference between amplitude modulation, ring modulation and frequency modulation you are not a musician

....

I would say that knowing these things can lead to being a musician, but having the abilities themselves does not make you a musician.

Maybe I'll become a musician one day then

Cheers
Dennis

[jancivil]

IMHO everyone who creates a song or instrumental, is a musician. ...construction kits...

I don't like this elitist fuss... Either I like the music or not.

Again, it isn't elitist at all. Just like enjoying any activity that can be done at a professional and highly trained/practiced level. There are tons of people who write music who are NOT musicians. There is a ton of good music made by non-musicians.

Basically you are taking a word that had a meaning. You wish that it applied to you. So, you start chipping away at its context. By the end it completely dismisses those that have achieved. I think that is sad and selfish.

I think you're exactly right. It is sad to see this. One can have an idea about oneself that isn't really true, you know. The revealing thing there is 'either I like the music or not'. Musicians and non-musicians tend to like different music and there is a reason for it.
It isn't a humble opinion, really it isn't. What you are hoping to do, is by the mere saying so vaulting yourself up to pretend to be peers to people that cared more than you care, frankly.

[Tricky-Loops]

Maybe I'll become a musician one day then

You have to apply to the Central World Association of REAL Musicians. Please fill out the 50-paged application of becoming a REAL musician. You play an instrument, but nobody takes you for serious? Get the certificate "REAL instrumentalist" -- now you finally can be taken for serious.

[jancivil]

everyone should be encouraged ... but participating in music doesn't make you a musician anymore than reading an anatomy and physiology book makes you a doctor

I don't know that's an equivalent. Not everyone in music should be called a maestro in the same way that not everyone who has looked at an anatomy book should be called a doctor; but perhaps everyone in music can be called a musician in the same way that anyone who has read an anatomy book can be called "studied in anatomy".

What? So not only can anyone assert 'I'm a musician', everyone that has read something is 'studied'? The seams of your argument are showing badly now.

I just don't like this whole denial of musician or music to a person or person's output. It stinks of exclusivity to me. For a start, where do you draw the line? When do you become a musician? There's no mandated exam to pass to become a musician and no standard of where cacophony and melody slide suddenly become 'music'.

this is further disingenuousness. If one is going to study music, there is a definition for melody in order to be useful and no one is going in with this faux-philosophical muddying of the waters. The whole argument you are trying to foist on us is dissolving into gas now.

When I first picked up a guitar and played 2 alternating notes was I a musician?

NO.

When I struggled to play Smoke on the Water very badly was I a musician?

NO.

When I was first able to play barre chords was I a musician?

NO.

When I could shred at speed was I a musician?

Out of just that, I seriously doubt it.

Am I a musician yet? How do I tell?

You really have no gauge for 'musicianship'? This I guess was a rhetorical question. You could study rhetoric and do better at it I think.

[vata44]

practice, practice, practice. always challenge yourself in small ways.

[tapper mike]

This is the smell of exclusivity I was talking about earlier.

Do you know what real musicians do? They figure it out. They work it out. They put the pieces of the puzzle together. They don't blame other people for their inabilities.

Have you ever seen a boxer that never trained for a fight? That's never worked out on a speed bag? That's never worked out on a heavy bag. That's never shadow boxed or learned the techniques and tactics a boxer needs to survive in a ring?
How long do you think they would last in a ring?

Being a musician is not about pretending to be a musician or wishing to be a musician.

You are in an exclusive club of those who can read and type english. Now if you told me that your abilities to do such things came without education or experience or that somehow electrodes are wired from your computer directly into your brain which make the sentences form. Well you are crazy.

How did you figure all of that stuff out? You learned english. Most likely you were introduced to spoken word as a child. Eventually learned the alphabet and how to recognize letters numbers and characters. There is a good possibility you learned this in school. Copying letters down in pencil then moving on to whole words and then sentences.

Music is a language. In order to get the rudiments of even a spoken language it takes time, practice, desire and some degree of instruction. People arent' born with it. They learn it. Those that don't get it well maybe they want to wish their lives away believing they are something they aren't.

[SJ_Digriz]

- If you don't know the relationship between the hamonics in a sawtooth wave you are not a musician.

- If you never wrote a piece of generative music (or the algo behind it) you are not a musician.

- If you don't know the difference between amplitude modulation, ring modulation and frequency modulation you are not a musician

....

I would say that knowing these things can lead to being a musician, but having the abilities themselves does not make you a musician.

Maybe I'll become a musician one day then

Cheers
Dennis

I didn't say you are not one ... I just said having attributes is only part of the equation.

[mikemusicked]

Interesting stuff. This is a topic that the different views will never come together on, but it's good to discuss.

Finishing what I didn't say above

I really believe that anyone who wants to "make music" whether on/in; GarageBand, ProTools, Ableton, a Stylophone, a Cornet, an Autoharp etc. should do so, and should be encouraged to continue enjoying what they make. Music is a wonderful thing to have in your life. Something you can do forever.

It doesn't make them a them a "professional musician" (though pay your annual dues and the musicians union will accept you no matter your level). Would I hire them for a recording session for a TV Them or album? Should they earn an honorary university degree?

Probably not. But, we need more people making, enjoying, creating, participating in music.

It creates a community that; listens more, buys more music/VSTs/instruments/synths, attends more concerts. The more people we have involved with the arts, the more supports the arts gets.

I say create away and enjoy! Share what you're doing. Encourage your friends, families, kids.

[jancivil]

this is the same as giving everyone a trophy at the end of a sporting event. That doesn't make everyone in the room an athlete because they happened to be on the court/field or in the pool.

Not really. It's more like giving everyone a medal for participating but the winners are the ones that get the trophies.

I would be loathe to discourage anyone from learning music and would call anyone who is happy that what they produce is music a "musician". I'm really not sure what good reason there would be to deny anyone that description.

So you need to imply people that insist on a meaning to a word have been discouraging, cruel persons denying musical activity to people? Come on, let's have clear goalposts.

[Tricky-Loops]

IMHO everyone who creates a song or instrumental, is a musician. ...construction kits...

I don't like this elitist fuss... Either I like the music or not.

Again, it isn't elitist at all. Just like enjoying any activity that can be done at a professional and highly trained/practiced level. There are tons of people who write music who are NOT musicians. There is a ton of good music made by non-musicians.

Basically you are taking a word that had a meaning. You wish that it applied to you. So, you start chipping away at its context. By the end it completely dismisses those that have achieved. I think that is sad and selfish.

I think you're exactly right. It is sad to see this. One can have an idea about oneself that isn't really true, you know. The revealing thing there is 'either I like the music or not'. Musicians and non-musicians tend to like different music and there is a reason for it.
It isn't a humble opinion, really it isn't. What you are hoping to do, is by the mere saying so vaulting yourself up to pretend to be peers to people that cared more than you care, frankly.

I really don't care about people who (pre-)judge about others without even knowing them...

[tapper mike]

It creates a community that; listens more, buys more music/VSTs/instruments/synths, attends more concerts. The more people we have involved with the arts, the more supports the arts gets.

While I'm all for capitalism, no it doesn't increase music sales nor does it increase concert ticket sales. Needing and talented musicians usually scrape by for the most part while mediocrity and sex appeal rise to the top.

[jancivil]

I really believe that anyone who wants to "make music" whether on/in; GarageBand, ProTools, Ableton, a Stylophone, a Cornet, an Autoharp etc. should do so, and should be encouraged to continue enjoying what they make. Music is a wonderful thing to have in your life. Something you can do forever.

I doubt anyone disagrees with that. I just see people trying to remove the meaning from the word in a competitive, contentious sort of way here a lot.
Some of us have been subject to severe opinions that are dismissive and Philistine here from people that are not qualified at all, but have decided they are.

I like to look at tv programs about mathematics and physics, and I have read whole books on astrophysics; & I think I get the gist. it doesn't make me a mathematician.