KVR Audio

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 8:48 pm

VariKusBrainZ wrote:Just tell us the secret damit

Ahh I see, you want those 'tricks'?

1. for kicks using filter self-oscillation it's absolutely necessary to switch the post filter drive unit 'OFF'. Even when the drive amount is set to 'zero' this module will overdrive the filter output - this is only relevant to the max resonance sweeps. Perhaps, this is the main culprit for confusing people when they try those 'resonance' kicks and instead of a smooth but powerful sweep they get a distorted 'industrial' bang.

2. Usually, one would use only one envelope on the cutoff, right? Use both, the 'fast' and 'slow' envelope! Don't know why but it helps to better balance the cutoff timbre. It's a but finicky but it does help to get more 'range' and 'tone'.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon May 27, 2013 8:49 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon May 27, 2013 8:49 pm

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himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:01 pm

TheoM wrote:ow listen the difference to punch and tremor in Him's own example. Even though punch can do better than that, that's proof that punch is so superior it's just a different breed. This topic should get RP alot of sales!

Weren't you "officially way over" this subject?

Theo, you like melodramatic language, but can you quantify what is so superior about the 'Punch' kick?

Anyone else? Does that Tremor kick is sooo inferior?

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:02 pm

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Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:03 pm

TheoM wrote:ow listen the difference to punch and tremor in Him's own example. Even though punch can do better than that, that's proof that punch is so superior it's just a different breed. This topic should get RP alot of sales!

The Punch example is a good 1.5dB louder than the Tremor one. Balance that out and the difference narrows.

BDeep · Post by **BDeep** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:15 pm

Taking factors like punchy, boomy, kicky etc,..and skills out of the equation (and yes they are important), isn't it just fair to say that Tremor has a distinct tonal quality that either suits you or doesn't?
Not that I think it isn't capable of other types of sounds, but it just seems to have one dominant flavor. Whereas other synths get another flavor faster. Horses for courses.

~Pd~ · Post by **~Pd~** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:41 pm

himalaya wrote:
VariKusBrainZ wrote:Just tell us the secret damit
Ahh I see, you want those 'tricks'?

1. for kicks using filter self-oscillation it's absolutely necessary to switch the post filter drive unit 'OFF'. Even when the drive amount is set to 'zero' this module will overdrive the filter output - this is only relevant to the max resonance sweeps. Perhaps, this is the main culprit for confusing people when they try those 'resonance' kicks and instead of a smooth but powerful sweep they get a distorted 'industrial' bang.

I turned the post filter drive down to zero then put some positive fast envelope modulation on it, using the op-amp mode. Gives it some growl on the attack without blowing out the whole thing.

2. Usually, one would use only one envelope on the cutoff, right? Use both, the 'fast' and 'slow' envelope! Don't know why but it helps to better balance the cutoff timbre. It's a but finicky but it does help to get more 'range' and 'tone'.

Oh, that's a good one. I could play with that for hours, tuning and tweaking.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:42 pm

Gamma-UT wrote:
The Punch example is a good 1.5dB louder than the Tremor one. Balance that out and the difference narrows.

Here I have both playing one by one. Both maximised, so it's a straight output from each plugin without any processing. Is the Punch kick really "a different breed". Seriously?

www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/Punch-Tremor.wav

Now. There are bound to be small differences as the envelopes and the filter will be different in each plugin. That's a given. For example, the Tremor kick has a little high frequency 'tsyk' 'tsyk' sound which I like as it adds some nice definition. However, what I'm concerned with is - at least where it comes to Theo's appraisal of Tremor - is that there ought to be no bass in this Tremor kick. No punch, no definition and it should be all 'tinny'. So going on from here, is that what people hear?

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 9:51 pm

~Pd~ wrote:
I turned the post filter drive down to zero then put some positive fast envelope modulation on it, using the op-amp mode. Gives it some growl on the attack without blowing out the whole thing.

'Envelope to drive amount' is a great technique and it works wonders on some kicks but not all. I use this technique too, often having all three drive stages modulated by tiny amounts. However, for this particular dance kick this overdrive would just kill it. Like this:

http://www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/ ... -drive.wav

I just switched the post-filter drive back 'on', on the same kick you hear above. The output drive slider is at 'zero'. So, here 'drive' is obviously of no use.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon May 27, 2013 10:00 pm

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himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 10:12 pm

~Pd~ wrote:
Oh, that's a good one. I could play with that for hours, tuning and tweaking.

Yep. Lot's to play with.

Look at that image. Both envelopes(the 'Fast' and 'Slow') are modulating the cutoff in pretty much equal amounts, but the difference in what the decay stages do is immense. A lot to tweak here. A lot of timbres to explore.

tibah · Post by **tibah** » Mon May 27, 2013 10:48 pm

himalaya wrote: www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/Punch-Tremor.wav

I like the 2nd part more, with that little extra in the sound. Just demoing Tremor because of this thread. I still don't feel like I need a dedicated drum-synth.

What I don't get or rather don't like is when you hear synthesized kicks and they seem to have this little jump or bump in the sound every other note. If anyone gets what I mean. Some may call it being unstable and part of the sound but I don't like this wonkyness.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon May 27, 2013 10:55 pm

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himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon May 27, 2013 11:01 pm

emotica wrote:
himalaya wrote: www.electric-himalaya.com/stuff/tremor/Punch-Tremor.wav
I like the 2nd part more, with that little extra in the sound. Just demoing Tremor because of this thread. I still don't feel like I need a dedicated drum-synth.

So you like Tremor more.

The thing is, each one of these will produce very powerful kicks - it's all about a very fine balance of envelope decay times, envelope 'hold' and the cutoff - not even 'drive'. If you do demo Tremor, please be informed that you may not find kicks as the one in the link above in the default library.

I really don't have the time now to post these, but I have at least 20 new powerful kicks that punch holes in walls.

Why do the BD's in Tremor sound so distant?