KVR Audio

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:44 am

Ok I checked and the release / full triggering is still an issue for most samples. It is especially audible in the cymbals and toms.

All the samples need to play ALL the way through, independent of how long the actual triggering MIDI Note is. (which is normally called as a "one shot" in most samplers).

QUESTION : Is it possible to completely bypass the ADSR envelope for the samples, and have them play from beginning to end , irrespective of the actual length of the triggering MIDI Note ?
Edit : just found that setting this gets the job done : loop_mode=one_shot
If you add this to the group section in all the components' individual sfz files, it does that ! QUESTION : Is it possible to get some knobs / dials going on the Control's tab (currently empty) in sforzando ?

Im really looking forward to finalizing this as I just found out (thanks to pljones) that sforzando uses DFD. The RAM is showing 900 MB for what is at least 2.5 GB of samples !!

And again, thank you for your hard work and patience. It was an epic, immense exercise that not everyone can do !

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:49 am

Sure, I could do that. I've just never done drums before so I just took it for granted you'd want the ability to control how long a cymbal sounds when you're programming it, like a note on a pitched instrument. You can try adding loop_mode=one_shot under <global> to the sm_drums.main sfz file and see if that overrides the release settings and works. If not I can redo this this evening. Last night I had an eel to peel, clean and fry but this evening I should have more time, hahaha.

I can add some controls to the controls tab, sure, but only looking like this:

This is also what I've done for the release, vibrato and multi-voice controls in my new bass library. It's also possible to then have preset files which set default values and then #include the main file.

What controls would we want here? For example I had been thinking earlier that if the path and file name conventions are consistent, it wouldn't be too hard to make a mapping for the room mics by making copies of the existing elements and search/replacing the paths, and make it possible to turn them on and set their volume.

A proper GUI with real knobs would have to be digitally signed by Plogue - but since this is a large and serious free drumkit, they might be willing to do it for a freebie. I have the XMLs for their GUI kit somewhere, tried messing with it a bit but never figured out where to put the example GUIs to actually make them load.

MIDI CC controls aren't really that hard. There are basically two ways of using them. Some parameters are directly controllable, so you can do release_oncc106=10 and ampeg_release=0.1. That would mean release is 0.1 at MIDI CC 106 set to 0, 10 at MIDI CC 106 set to max (127). Or if you wanted a control for switching to hi-hat #2, then make two versions of the hi-hat files, one for each hat, with extra opcodes: one with hicc107=63 so it plays when MIDI CC 107 is 0-63, and one with locc107=64 so it plays when MIDI CC 107 is in the range 64 to 127.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:16 am

Thanks again DSmolken for that informative post. I will test tonight for the global loop_mode=one_shot possibility.

The only control that is crucial is volume controls for each element / sound.

Is it possible to consolidate each kind of kit element and give a control to each collective ?

For eg:
all snares - common volume control
all hihats - common volume control
etc

This would be ideal , otherwise it means having volume controls for 20 plus individual elements !

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:40 am

Sure, that's easy, just needs to use the same MIDI CC in all the snare-related files. Do you want the cymbals as separate elements with only the tip/bell of each ride having the same volume slider, or all cymbals together?

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:57 am

DSmolken wrote:Sure, that's easy, just needs to use the same MIDI CC in all the snare-related files. Do you want the cymbals as separate elements with only the tip/bell of each ride having the same volume slider, or all cymbals together?

Glad to hear it !

I think :

Kick - 1 volume slider
All Snares - 1 volume slider
All Hihats - 1 volume slider
Ride/Bell 1 - 1 volume slider
Ride/Bell 2 - 1 volume slider
Crash 1 - 1 volume slider
Crash 2 - 1 volume slider
China 1 - 1 volume slider
etc etc

But if you have a better idea / suggestion, go for it !

EDITED : for detail

Tubeman · Post by **Tubeman** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:42 pm

I'm not really sure why you are adding release times for drums?

Usually you just add

Code: Select all

loop_mode=one_shot

in the <group> section which will make all the samples play from start to end unless they're being muted intentionally.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:45 pm

Tubeman wrote:I'm not really sure why you are adding release times for drums?

Usually you just add
Code: Select all
loop_mode=one_shot
in the <group> section which will make all the samples play from start to end unless they're being muted intentionally.

As he said, he normally does not do acoustic drum samples, so he assumed it needed a release time..and i mentioned the one shot loop mode above....

But that is some of the fastest sfz mapping work i have ever seen !

Question is , can this loop mode be applied globally in the main file , so it automatically applies to everything ?

Barring that, having release times in the controls would actually not be a bad idea. It could come with "manufacturer's recommeded setting"

which the user is free to tweak to taste.

Yeager · Post by **Yeager** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:30 pm

@ DSMolken, I forgot to say : You're doing a great job... THANKS !

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:57 pm

It is confirmed :
Setting up the following in the master sfz file bypasses all release envelopes

!

<global>
loop_mode=one_shot

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:10 pm

Yup. I got to learn more about drums and also a few more SFZ tricks. I thought one_shot just was there to prevent looping...

Here's today's test version: http://we.tl/WuGBHw55Qb

One-shot mode set globally, separate volume slider for each element. I used amplitude_onccXXX starting with CC 101, and they're all on full by default. Dnb version has no one-shot mode, instead a very short global ampeg_decay, no hi-hat off group, and the same volume controls as the regular version.

I could do release controls or something to select between hi-hat #1 and hi-hat #2. And I could also do more sophisticated hi-hat muting. Which of those things would be most useful?

Btw, were there any samples of the smaller kick recorded and just not edited yet? When I do use acoustic drum samples it's for a singer that has a quiet acoustic lineup live (voice/guitar, double bass, cello, cajon) so a small old-school kick might be nice to have.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:20 pm

Here is 1969 Kick samples but its just a few samples, probably originally meant as one-shots, not multi-layered. It sounds great . Please do what you will.
Maybe in our next round we will do a detailed set for this kick too. I honestly have forgotten why we originally didn't do deep sampling for this kick for this version. Scott may remember.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/51610705/k1969.zip

EDIT : Please don't use this in the public sfz mapping (that we will share on the site once you are done, with full credit to you) as these kick samples are NOT included in the sample library shared on the site. Otherwise use as you like.

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:59 pm

Cool! I'll map that to B for my own use. Bigger kicks are a lot more popular, so if both were included I'm sure most people would use the current kick a vast majority of the time, but it's nice to have a lighter kick sometimes.

As for finishing the mapping, I do want to try more sophisticated hi-hat muting this weekend just to see how that works, but I think one way or another we can declare it finished next week.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:08 pm

@DSmolken : This version is perfect ! Its got the nice volume controls and the full sample playback.

Thank you for your hardwork and your excellence.

Is there a resource on the web that mentions the label and set_cc opcodes implementation ?

Im going to give this to Tod and Scott to check tomorrow....and then make it public on the website, after you have finalized to your satisfaction. The hi hats sound fine to me at present.

But those per item volume controls fascinate me.

If there were others , like two filters and reverb per bus for 4 buses (kik, snare, hats, cymbals ) it would pretty much be a complete drum solution right there.

But is the control area scrollable ? Is there more GUI realestate available on the controls tab area ? Should i ask the plogue guys ?

DSmolken · Post by **DSmolken** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:47 pm

Awesome. If Tod and Scott don't see the need for any changes then, sure, we can finalize and publish. Should I do some bus mappings - kick, snare, hi-hat, cymbals and toms, with only the cymbal volume controls in the cymbal one and tom volumes in the tom one? That could be a useful workaround for the lack of multiple outputs, and would take all of five minutes, just make a few copies of the main file and delete the stuff that isn't needed.

A lot of this stuff isn't really documented in any one place. The volume controls are really pretty easy - set amplitude_oncc102=100 in the files for all the individual snare elements, amplitude_oncc103=100 for all hats etc. Then do the labels and default settings in the main file. I copied that from the 909 kit in the Aria free sounds.

By two filters do you mean low and high pass? Filters are easy to do, but I don't know if two at once on the same sound is supported. I don't think the GUI is expandable, but it's XML-based so it might be possible to create some sub-tabs that way. Asking the Plogue guys seems like a good idea. If they'd sign it somebody could do a nice GUI.

Burzukh_Studios · Post by **Burzukh_Studios** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:39 am

Yessss - to the bus mappings, but in slightly different manner.

My idea was to allow the user to load 6 instances of sforzando with six bus sfz files:
Kick, Snare, Toms, Hi hats, Rides , Crashes

Each of these six bus sfz would have volume and pan controls for each component/ articulation in that particular bus.

For eg :
the hat bus would have the six hat articulations
the tom bus would have the three toms

Etc etc

It would allow the user to manage vol / pan controls for each component/ articulation and then process/fx the overall sound in the DAW's respective track.

I would also share a reaper template with the whole thing set-up for users to get going immediately.

I browsed the plogue site but it wasn't clear what extra benefit getting a signing / auhorization from plogue would get. Do you have any idea ? Just want to be clear about what i'm asking before i contact those guys.

The 2 filter idea was essentially for having a hi pass filter for low-end / mud removal and a second band pass or notch filter for component frequency emphasis.

But that would not be needed if we go with the bus idea outlined above, since then the user can use whatever eq/filter/ fx he or she likes !

Thanks again for your continous help and support. We owe you

Even if you leave it as it is at present, its still FANTASTIC !

New Drum Samples Website : SM Drums