Do you ever think compressors, suck?

[bmanic]

but I can barely hear any abused compression in good sounding classic rock albums /think the first album of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc.../

Then it's pretty clear you do not know what to listen for. Believe me, it's there.. loads of it!

[bmanic]

Compression is probably the main reason a lot of you folks like the music you like.. without realising it

Led Zep used shiteloads of compression on their drums to get that huge sound for instance..

Exactly this. Compression is used everywhere, and usually by quite healthy doses. We're all just so used to hearing it that you just don't notice it.

.. and as I mentioned earlier, compressors are NOT always used for reducing the dynamic range. It can be used in the OPPOSITE direction (long attack + fast release), increasing dynamic range, further separating the transient from the sustain.

[transmetropolitan]

My Bloody Valentine are arguably one of the loudest bands to ever exist - and this is the combined waveform of their album released in 2013:

MBV are not famously loud in the way you're talking about. Their live shows are certainly obnoxiously loud in terms of VOLUME, but their recordings are not notoriously loud in terms of compression.

Anyhow, the problem has never been with loudness when it's done as a creative choice. There are parts of Dark Side Of The Moon that are SLAMMED, brickwalled into submission and sound great.

The problem has been that people (and I blame artists themselves as much as anyone in the industry - Metallica to cite one famous example) have time and again made the decision to make a whole album stupidly loud believing it to be a good business decision rather than a good creative choice.

What has ended the loudness war is the spread of replay volume normalisation from Spotify to iTunes to most media players. Crushing your mix with a limiter and pushing it into digital distortion no longer gets you to be louder than the competition - and consequently the artefacts of doing so become a price no-one in their right mind would pay (which arguably should already have been the case...).

Compressing something badly, whether a full mix or single track, can destroy it worse than almost any other processing technique you could think of. But used well, compressors can make performances and tracks sing together, sit how you want them in a mix, groove, lift and loads else besides.

I find the 'compressors affect the timbre' argument really weird. No shit they affect the timbre - what processing doesn't? Moving a microphone an inch affects the timbre of a recording. Out here in the real world EVERYTHING is about compromise and what gets you the best payoff.

There is validitiy of course in having a preference for other choices. But the central 'problem' is that people overwhelmingly do not listen to music in scenarios conducive to huge swings in dynamics. Music has to fight the noise of conversation, of the car engine, of the office, of next door's baby crying or a TV in the next room. If you don't want to use a compressor that's OK, but you need to address this problem in another way - and there are no choices completely free of drawbacks.

[do_androids_dream]

.. and as I mentioned earlier, compressors are NOT always used for reducing the dynamic range. It can be used in the OPPOSITE direction (long attack + fast release), increasing dynamic range, further separating the transient from the sustain.

Yes.. I have 2 'go to' mastering compressors, for example. One is to glue and squash and one is to do exactly what you are talking about bmanic. In fact the latter, on some material, does an incredible job of perceptibly expanding but also gluing. Compressors are the voodoo of audio production - don't try to understand them too much, just get to know what they DO do and learn to work with their attributes.

[Satch1]

I find the 'compressors affect the timbre' argument really weird. No shit they affect the timbre - what processing doesn't

Volume automation

[transmetropolitan]

I find the 'compressors affect the timbre' argument really weird. No shit they affect the timbre - what processing doesn't

Volume automation

I have issues with the idea that this is inherently more transparent to the original performance in all contexts... It's simply not true.

[camsr]

Automation is generally macro dynamics, long term RMS changes, but can also be used to modify the microdynamics of samples and such. People use compressors because this operation is long and tedious on the microdynamic scale.

[Robert Randolph]

Automation is generally macro dynamics, long term RMS changes, but can also be used to modify the microdynamics of samples and such. People use compressors because this operation is long and tedious on the microdynamic scale.

I don't know what projects you've worked on, but I used to constantly be sent stuff that was absolutely ridiculous in terms of the 'micro automation'. Mostly metal and some classical stuff.

I'd even go as far to say that it's common.

Especially with modern EDM stuff that people do in FL studio, automation clips are seriously abused over there.

[camsr]

Automation is generally macro dynamics, long term RMS changes, but can also be used to modify the microdynamics of samples and such. People use compressors because this operation is long and tedious on the microdynamic scale.

I don't know what projects you've worked on, but I used to constantly be sent stuff that was absolutely ridiculous in terms of the 'micro automation'. Mostly metal and some classical stuff.

I'd even go as far to say that it's common.

Especially with modern EDM stuff that people do in FL studio, automation clips are seriously abused over there.

If using a midi controller, possibly it's easier, more accessible, but I think point envelopes are tedious to get right, especially if it's on the order of ducking 2 or so milliseconds of material.

[Satch1]

I find the 'compressors affect the timbre' argument really weird. No shit they affect the timbre - what processing doesn't

Volume automation

I have issues with the idea that this is inherently more transparent to the original performance in all contexts... It's simply not true.

Unless taking into consideration the Flecter Munson curve I don't see how it's not true?

[kvaca]

but I can barely hear any abused compression in good sounding classic rock albums /think the first album of Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc.../

Then it's pretty clear you do not know what to listen for. Believe me, it's there.. loads of it!

btw - I was talking about original vinyl albums, not any later remastered shit...so you saying that compression IS abused on these albums or used as fx or not transparent enough
then god save me from hearing some modern records where it it REALLY is abused or used as intentionall fx to be really noticeable...and finally limited to brick, think DR6 or less...

.. and as I mentioned earlier, compressors are NOT always used for reducing the dynamic range. It can be used in the OPPOSITE direction (long attack + fast release), increasing dynamic range, further separating the transient from the sustain.

agree with you on this - this is EXACTLY the compression I can hear from albums of that era and I like it...it makes the record well balanced when room mics are usually heavily compressed

[kvaca]

Compression is probably the main reason a lot of you folks like the music you like.. without realising it

Led Zep used shiteloads of compression on their drums to get that huge sound for instance..

clearly not true...
at first - the reason for me is always quality of music itself, not a quality /or amount/ of compression....compression-even if exaggerated-here is used to create smart illusion of real live record /or to say it another way - to mask some unnaturalness of studio mix/

second - believe me or not, personally I would always prefer any of my music to be newly rerecorded using only 2 good omni mics in AB stereo setup inside good sounding room with almost no compression used...unfortunatelly for some music it cannot be done because of various reasons we all know...

[jens]

Compressors are an effect. They affect things. They do cool stuff, and cooler stuff when you really drive them. Compressors are awesome.

This!

What's next? delays are teh Evil?

[jens]

agree to disagree...

Maybe, but you are clearly by far in the minority with this and your individual opinion is not really relevant. You are certainly entitled to it, just don't go around and tell everyone who loves the audible effect certain compressors have, he's totally wrong - or do it and be prepared to receive an appropriate reply.

[bongo_x]

If I had to only choose one effect to use I might choose compression over eq. Compressors are fantastic.
Compressors are also the hardest thing for people to learn to use well.