Is Music Really Universal?

[harryupbabble]

They go on to suggest that many cultures distanced from Western musical influence are rather agnostic about the whole consonant/dissonant distinction.

Western music (not as in Clint Eastwood, heh) is generally 4/4 time and using a chromatic 12 tone scale.
Take say the Arabic musical scale of 7, and again not necessarily 4/4 but maybe 7/16 time signatures.

To the westerner's ear this can be overly complex, particularly if that ear is fed 4/4 doof doof with the bleeps and blurts, repeat ad nauseum. But..it is music.

Another tangent.
Falco. Some huge hits in the 80's - Rock me Amadeus, Der kommissar. Sung in German and to this day still love listening to them. There was an English translation, but just didn't sound as good. Likewise Nena and 99 luft balloons.. English version.. meh. German version oh yeah.

Falco and Nena. I have the English versions of those songs in my CD collection. Their music is westernized. Therefore, "westernized" people like you and I are more likely to like it. If i am getting correctly the point you are making... you are saying that you prefer the German version of those songs to the English version? Because the music has more passion? Because Germans sing better in their native tongue? And Germans singing in English loses mojo? That is your point, right?

But ignoring that for a second and just focusing on the music, you need to have the whole world (and that includes tribes of the Amazon) understanding the music in order for anything to be universal since the definition of universal is "capable of being used and understood by all".

But if tribes from remote villages of the Amazon hear consonance/dissonance differently than our "westernized" ears because their ears have not been "westernized" then the people of those tribes are not understanding music the way we "westerners" are understanding it and therefore music is not universal according to the definition of the word universal which is "capable of being used and understood by all".

Hey man, I like that misheard Police lyrics you posted. I think I will use it for a while. Also, you play in a band? Is that rare here or what? Which has more mojo? The songs you played with your band or those same songs in DAW form? Assuming of course that mojo does exist. Anyhow, I think I'll call it a night. Ciao.

[Frantz]

Music is not universal unless it is made by Rebecca Black. The whole world loves that shit.

[emcee]

Falco and Nena. I have the English versions of those songs in my CD collection. Their music is westernized. Therefore, "westernized" people like you and I are more likely to like it. If i am getting correctly the point you are making... you are saying that you prefer the German version of those songs to the English version? Because the music has more passion? Because Germans sing better in their native tongue? And Germans singing in English loses mojo? That is your point, right?

In a sense yes. It just flows better because that's what the composer had in mind when they were writing it. Changing the lyrics to the English version, whilst making it just a smidge easier to sing along to, it lacks that yes, you're correct - fervour, passion, musicality..

But ignoring that for a second and just focusing on the music, you need to have the whole world (and that includes tribes of the Amazon) understanding the music in order for anything to be universal since the definition of universal is "capable of being used and understood by all".

But if tribes from remote villages of the Amazon hear consonance/dissonance differently than our "westernized" ears because their ears have not been "westernized" then the people of those tribes are not understanding music the way we "westerners" are understanding it and therefore music is not universal according to the definition of the word universal which is "capable of being used and understood by all".

The way I'm reading this thread is there's two trains of thinking.
1) Music to you and I can be interpreted by a guy in the Namibian desert who doesn't know Bee Gees from a Swarm of Bees. Sure - it can but similar to Muppets Swedish Chef trying to ask me directions to the nearest train station. I know it's language and I can "get" in a very hrmm, tribal (?) way what it is without complete understanding. A complex piece from Peruvian pan pipe band I get.
2) music has a commonality across all borders that can be felt/understood on it's most basic level. And my play on this is a guy with two sticks and rhythm. Break it right down, take away the layers of synths, drum machines and our current western music and beat a drum with two sticks, and that is universal. I believe every culture has drums/percussion. Even piano is foreign in some cultures, despite existing for several hundred years. Campfire guitar even.. in the backwoods of Iceland when they go camping - what do they take? If we taught an Amazonian tribe how to play "Shake it off" by T Swift with their native instruments, is it still universal - or has it been translated and loses something - in a way a lot more than the Falco/Nena thing?

This is actually a pretty heavy thread.

Hey man, I like that misheard Police lyrics you posted. I think I will use it for a while. Also, you play in a band? Is that rare here or what? Which has more mojo? The songs you played with your band or those same songs in DAW form? Assuming of course that mojo does exist. Anyhow, I think I'll call it a night. Ciao.

Funny that I spat out those misheard lyrics - a local radio station the day after posting that has a competition for the best misheard lyric. And there's a word for it. "mondegreen". There are some pearlers out there. Yes play in two bands when I have time.. First one is me and a female singer doing original stuff and a few covers - occasionaly we'll add a live drummer. The other is my band original from the mid 90's that "in the day" put out a CD, toured a lot and had grand aspirations of being stars. That band is 70% social 30% hey lets keep this going for the fans. Having the band gives is a real organic feel, even though there's often a DAW doing the extra stuff I just don't have the hands for and the drummer rides a click track. And the feedback of "hey we should add an extra verse" or "hey lets try this at 90bpm instead of 120bpm. And it's better to kick back with a cold beverage with either a) a girl half my age or b) four other guys I've known for 20+ years.
And then there's just me writing and playing because I enjoy it, with the odd session fill in gig for musical colleagues.
And with that, it's almost knock off time in my time zone.

[emcee]

Second largest concert attendance took place in 1991 with the following artists, with 1.6 million attending.
AC/DC, Pantera, Metallica, The Black Crowes

That was in Moscow.. not sure how "You Shook Me All Night Long" translates into Russian, but I'm sure Angus Young's riffs translate universally (and on a large scale with those figures.. )

FYI - Largest was Jean Michael Jarre, 2.5 million in Paris, 1990.

But that could just mean that those crowds are into those bands. It doesn't say anything about music being universal.

If you replace those crowds with, oh I don't know, let's say, the Celine Dion crowd and get the same result, then yes maybe music is universal.

I think the thing that hit me with that factoid was seeing English singing bands draw a huge crowd, and the numbers not being put off by "hey I won't understand the words, so lets stay at home".. If I flipped that around the other way and (not my cup of tea but a good example) Celine played a whole show and sang all her songs in French, would that be less musical? My take is no - you go to these gigs or listen to the CD's/Digital Stream because the music does something for you - regardless of origin or language.

Rammstein.. Du Du Hast. Du Hast meich. I'm guessing he's not asking "make. Make me a Sandwich" but again I can get the feel of what they're trying to deliver.. mmmmm sandwich.

[incubus]

Music is not universal unless it is made by Rebecca Black. The whole world loves that shit.

Perfect song. Autotuned to the max, stupid, token rap part, pure formula.

Here, for your listening pleasure (since it's around the corner)





My my.......



Well, it's better than lil wayne

[fmr]

They go on to suggest that many cultures distanced from Western musical influence are rather agnostic about the whole consonant/dissonant distinction.

Western music (not as in Clint Eastwood, heh) is generally 4/4 time and using a chromatic 12 tone scale.

WHAT?

[emcee]

Music at a tribal level is universal as you could say it's in our DNA.
Music as in the popular genre of each culture, not so much.
Those Mongolian nose singers for example, I appreciate it and amazed but couldn't listen to it for a three hour road trip.

[emcee]

more "stuck in traffic thoughts"
could it also be asked is food is Universal? Because it exists in every culture but of course is different from continent to continent, country to country, state/county and even City to City.

But I can still get a burger in Tijuana, but it won't be the same as the one I buy in Seattle.

#justsayin

[incubus]

Oh, I just love people that text and drive!

[emcee]

Oh, I just love people that text and drive!

I have a PA, she's called Siri.
And I'm not sure about your traffic, but when you have to pull on the handbrake when you're stopped on a freeway, technically I don't call that driving

[incubus]

You'd fit right in around here. They have now put big flashing lights around our stop signs. But nobody notices ... too busy getting that message in about how bad the teacher at school is.

[emcee]

You'd fit right in around here. They have now put big flashing lights around our stop signs. But nobody notices ... too busy getting that message in about how bad the teacher at school is.

New Topic
Is Traffic Universal
Are Morons Universal

Traffic. My commute from home to the office - on a Sunday, 15-20 mins. Morning peak. 45-50 mins. Worst in the last 18 months, Two freakin hours. That's 25km (our your speak, 15 miles). I have seriously contemplated dusting off the mountain bike, surely it can't be much worse (besides the chaffing).

/rant over

[incubus]

Yes, people that text and drive are morons. What is your point?

[emcee]

no point. Isn't that the purpose of KVR?
Just a Friday afternoon here and crossing my fingers it doesn't take 50 mins to get home, I've instructed the Mrs to ensure there is cold beer in the fridge, so the weekend gets off on the right foot.

[Hink]

please dont text and drive If I get a text while driving my car will read it to me but it sends out a message even before I push the button on my steering wheel to open that says "I'm Driving"