KVR Audio

koalaboy · Post by **koalaboy** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Psuper wrote:
koalaboy wrote:
40" 4K monitor here, sat 12" away. 1080p looks blurry, but non-compliant plugins are too small to read at 4K.
12" away? You gotta have some young eyes. Which doesn't make sense cause I'm 48, sit about 3' away and see every plugin and app perfectly at 4k on my monitor.

I'm a very similar age to you, but I have failing eyesight. I run my desktop at 200% scale, so it *looks* like 1080p, but really nice and crisp. Exceptionally crisp. This means I have a very good display that I can see.

As soon as something runs at non-aware 4K (so, it doesn't follow the windows scaling - like many plugins), I can't see the text or details.

Kypresso · Post by **Kypresso** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:03 pm

Psuper wrote:Which doesn't make sense cause I'm 48, sit about 3' away and see every plugin and app perfectly at 4k on my monitor.

Which monitor are you using?
I'm looking to buy a new monitor and it would help to hear from people using 4k monitors that work for daw use.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:10 pm

4K doesn't say anything anyway, if you don't also mention the size of the monitor...

teilo · Post by **teilo** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:27 pm

DJ Warmonger wrote:
teilo wrote:
DJ Warmonger wrote:Live 10 can upscale plugins... or not, you can choose to turn it on and off individually for each.
Unfortunately, only on Windows.
Well, before Live 10, everybody was like "add it for Windows, Mac already supports high DPI displays". So how is it?

That's a different matter. Mac supports scaling on HiDPI, that is true. Non-HiDPI aware plugins render at the proper size.

I run dual 27" 4K displays at 2560x1440 in HiDPI mode. But even then there are still plugins that are just too tiny. the FullBucket stuff comes to mind. I really wish it were possible to force scale them.

Then there's Reason, which is just ridiculous, but not a VST issue.

Psuper · Post by **Psuper** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:41 pm

chk071 wrote:4K doesn't say anything anyway, if you don't also mention the size of the monitor...

True, however I already mentioned you need to have 40" or more, and I responded to a guy using a 40" monitor, so it's pretty much implied I would be having a similar size monitor. Mine is also 40".

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electron ... B074NFWYFQ

Got mine for $300 when it went on sale last year.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:44 pm

Psuper wrote:
chk071 wrote:4K doesn't say anything anyway, if you don't also mention the size of the monitor...
True, however I already mentioned you need to have 40" or more, and I responded to a guy using a 40" monitor, so it's pretty much implied I would be having a similar size monitor. Mine is also 40".

Ah... fair enough then. Nevermind.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:50 pm

Psuper wrote:
chk071 wrote:4K doesn't say anything anyway, if you don't also mention the size of the monitor...
True, however I already mentioned you need to have 40" or more, and I responded to a guy using a 40" monitor, so it's pretty much implied I would be having a similar size monitor. Mine is also 40".

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electron ... B074NFWYFQ

Got mine for $300 when it went on sale last year.

That is great price!
Can you see the Korg synths or Reason or Retrologue fonts clearly at such resolution/size? (I mainly have those problems).

Psuper · Post by **Psuper** » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:59 pm

EnGee wrote:
Psuper wrote:
chk071 wrote:4K doesn't say anything anyway, if you don't also mention the size of the monitor...
True, however I already mentioned you need to have 40" or more, and I responded to a guy using a 40" monitor, so it's pretty much implied I would be having a similar size monitor. Mine is also 40".

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electron ... B074NFWYFQ

Got mine for $300 when it went on sale last year.
That is great price!
Can you see the Korg synths or Reason or Retrologue fonts clearly at such resolution/size? (I mainly have those problems).

Its the same physical "size" as what I'm used to with my 27" 1440p or my 23" 1080p, size-related things of any applications are relatively unchanged, just a ton more real-estate to house them.

I won't get into the performance hit of any chipset vs dedicated card (https://www.evga.com/products/product.a ... P4-6332-RX for DAWs is killer), nor the benefit of more than 60 frames for normal viewing fatigue or genuine enjoyment (4k will eventually get it, stuck at 60 for now unless you like to blow money on new tech), but I'll certainly chime in when the info is needed.

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:56 am

Thanks Psuper for the info. It is very useful indeed.

Well, I can't find such prices here in NZ! The cheapest I could find is a Samsung 43" UHD for about U$800 which is over my budget. Anyway, what I really need then is a 40" ~ 43" with 1440p! That would be fantastic as 40" with 4k is actually has things smaller than what I have now (27" 1080p). I think I'm back with my 32" 1080p monitor choice then

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:43 am

So what are you saying, 4k makes everything looks smaller?

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:52 am

Smaller than what?

koalaboy · Post by **koalaboy** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:44 am

Kinh wrote:So what are you saying, 4k makes everything looks smaller?

If you sit at the same distance from two monitors which are the same physical size, one being 1080p and one 4K, and you don't use scaling, everything on the 4K monitor will be half the size of those on the 1080p monitor.

Trancit · Post by **Trancit** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:23 am

koalaboy wrote:
Kinh wrote:So what are you saying, 4k makes everything looks smaller?
If you sit at the same distance from two monitors which are the same physical size, one being 1080p and one 4K, and you don't use scaling, everything on the 4K monitor will be half the size of those on the 1080p monitor.

But what means you gain a 100% of screen space to work with...
In reality (from what i´ve heard/read) many people scale the 4k up to about 125-130% so it´s not full double size... but attractive anyway...

Nevertheless, it´s a shame that many developers of active plugins, simply don´t care about scaling...
I understand that realtime scaling of plugins can take more CPU, but there is nevertheless the option to provide different preconfigured GUI sizes, so no excuse here

Even if 4k is still not standard, I believe nevertheless that it will be in near future...
GUI´s of many plugins getting more complex (i.e. Avenger) and having more screenspace in a single monitor (cannot stand multiple screens) would be a godsend for me...
But I still didn´t make the move because of all these bespoke problems...

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:30 am

koalaboy wrote:
Kinh wrote:So what are you saying, 4k makes everything looks smaller?
If you sit at the same distance from two monitors which are the same physical size, one being 1080p and one 4K, and you don't use scaling, everything on the 4K monitor will be half the size of those on the 1080p monitor.

To be more precise: half the width/length, quarter the screen footprint.

4K = 4x 1080p

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:28 am

Trancit wrote:But what means you gain a 100% of screen space to work with...

Actually you gain 300%.

antic604 piointed it out; there are 4 times as many pixels on an HD screen than an HD one (twice as many per dimension).

In reality (from what i´ve heard/read) many people scale the 4k up to about 125-130% so it´s not full double size... but attractive anyway...

problems...[/quote]

My only 4K screen is on a 15" laptop. 200% scaling is mandatory, and yeah there's still a lot of stuff that doesnt handle it that well.
I do however have three 27" 2K screens at home that are at 100%, and that's fine. Im guessing, but I dont think I'd want to run anything smaller than about 36" at 4K/100% though. 40" 4K screens are definitely fine.

is there a solution for 4k screens? Host or plugin with zoom?