stubborn logic pc users still hanging tough?

[1-2-Many]

I plan to use it for another 6 months or so until SX 3.1 comes out - then I'll get the 4-way Opteron monster.

KingLouie

That's an irresponsible statement! AFAIK There's been no official announcement from Steinberg on anything about SX3, nothing on the cubase forum either. What you going off on KingLouie??

[Sascha Franck]

OK, A_Witt... whatever. You may accuse me again of this being a typical messageboard answer, but I couldn't care less.
I could as well accuse you of typing typical "I know it all answers" which seems to be pretty much the sort of style you're into.

Re: Redraws. Almost EVERY Logic user knows about them and more than enough people have been stating that they are actually getting worse under LogicPro. This is my personal experience as well. If it doesn't happen for you, fine, but I wonder how this could be, especially considering the fact that you can't exactly customize a G5 that much.
Screensets switching WAY slower than under, say, Windows is another fact, there's no way around it.

Re: TBA. Yes, in the automation folder you can tweak automation "parts" like MIDI parts, but only once. The next time you switch back and forth between the automation folder and your arrange, the edits you may have been doing will be invisible. So, cutting up automation data, eventually copying it or whatever will only be visible the moment you do it. But you can't go back and delete copies of a copied part. The data copied was "harcopied".
Let alone that looping automation data is not working as well - could be nice and useful (especially for smooth filter sweeps and whatever) but doesn't work at all (unless the data in the parts containing your notes is looped as well).
Yes, you can loop automation data in the automation folder, but it's only working as long as you stay inside the folder. It will then loop fine. Go back to your arrange - still fine. Go back to the automation folder: Looped data gone!
Further, you cannot tweak different automation data differently with your common MIDI techniques.
So, in case I would like to draw in a 1-bar filter sweep and a 2-bar resonance sweep and then want to copy/loop them independently of each other this again is impossible (unless you're using automation view which is NOT what I am about - I want to tweak automation data just like standard MIDI data).
So, by now it should be more or less clear that my original statement of not being able to work with automatioon data the same way you do with MIDI data.
I won't even start about the rather silly idea of having the automation track order being alphabetical rather than being user definable... or about not being able to add some "no output" track which I allways use to put some empty "arrange" parts on it to make navigation easier.

However, I'm gonna stop now. Have a nice time.

[bleebsen]

I've been a long-time Logic user (on Windows) too.

After "the deal" (Apple screwing me, that is) I was whining and cursing for some weeks like the rest of us probably.. and THEN just decided to switch to Cubase SX2.

And it took me about two days to feel absolutely comfortable with my decision. WORKING delay-compensation is awesome. Mixdown in non-realtime (but as fast as your PC can) is awesome. And the structure of Cubase now appears far more logic to me than Logic ever did.

There're only two things I really missed: EXS24 (now happily replaced by kontakt) and the way logic moves events (they stay in their sub-grid position when you move them. in cubase they snap to the grid instead.. VERY annoying.. somebody has a good workaround for this ?).

.. and well <kindergarten>since apple took away my toy I'm NEVER EVER playing with them again</kindergarten>.

sincerely
bleeb

[Sascha Franck]

There're only two things I really missed: EXS24 (now happily replaced by kontakt) and the way logic moves events (they stay in their sub-grid position when you move them. in cubase they snap to the grid instead.. VERY annoying.. somebody has a good workaround for this ?).

Yes, the way SX treats event movements per default stinks.
I allready asked for a way to do it like in Logic and got a few answers back some time - need to find them in the mess I call my inbox. Will keep you informed as soon as I got them.

[original flipper]

HI

Sorry for my earlier comments, but it annoys me when I read post's that become negative - we should accept that we don't always know everything there is to know (about anything for that matter) and show some bloomin sensitivity towards each other - which I didn't!

Flipper.

[h4nc0]

Considering the fact of "who you are" even makes your rant worse. I know of a beta tester for Emagic that made statements similar to yours and in that position he was being irrresponsible and disrespectful. So no matter how you put it there's no justifying that kind of rant coming from a person in your position. Fun stuff, surprise me.

A_Witt

What's wrong with SF's listing a bunch of problem Logic has on public forum? What's wrong with a beta tester making statements similar to those of SF's? Why do you think it's irresponsible and disrespectful? Just because one was beta-testing Logic, he/she has to restrain him/herself from bitching about Logic and its bugs/problems?

How about ditching thousands of users who have invested in Logic, Logic soft synths, emagic hardwares, not to mention the time spent learning/working on it? And the "get a Mac if you want further support/bug fixes" attitude emagic took after the buyout?

Now tell me what is more disrespectful and irresponsible.

BTW, Sascha, I want to talk to you about your thoughts on Cubase SX/Nuendo. I've been using Nuendo for several months, and I just hate it.

[Kingston]

I'm buying a new monster machine in a month or so.

and I'm seriously considering getting heavily in to SX...

But,

all these things people have been saying about other hosts is making me feel ill. Logic still seems like the composer/mixer/arranger (ie producer) host. That's the way I feel about it anyway. and since it seems like the midi event handling hasn't significanly changed in Cubase since 2.8, except maybe that hyperedit rip-off, I'm at loss at what to do.

I would really want non-realtime bounce, freeze and full latency compensation, but for this losing everything that's good about logic seems like too much of a sacrifice.

Where do I go from here? Is there really no host to meet me "half way"?

[original flipper]

HI

If you search out a Thread on the up coming Samplitude V8 (Any Samplitude users here? that I posted) you may have your question/search answered - I too am upgrading soon (dual Xeon) and don't really see the point in continuing to use Logic as things can only get worse from a (non) support point of view and the fact that things have moved on from 3 years ago when Logic was being developed for its final charade on the PC.

There are also indicators that Sonar V4 is to make an appearance soon, so it might be a good time to make a complete move/change.

Flipper.

[Sascha Franck]

h4nc0, I had to use SX for some weeks now (due to my job of setting up and maintaining the local music uni's media lab), and I hate it as well.

And Kingston, yeah - I feel your pain too.

Main thing for me is, regarding all the technical specs, SX/Nuendo may perhaps blow Logic away big time - but then, once Emagic implements a feature, they usually do it more or less right.
Look at sceensets, just the way it has to be in Logic. Look at them in SX and you'd start to laugh if it wasn't all that sad.
Look at freezing - just lousy in SX, brilliant in Logic.
Look at offline bouncing - ok-ish in SX, but still full of errors it seems. In LogicPro it's close to being perfect.

And then - look at ANYTHING regarding handling, efficiency of arranging, layouts, ergonomics and what else...
Cubase and Nuendo IMO are BY FAR the most unecessarily blown up programs I've ever seen.
The dudes programming the UIs for Steinberg need to be kicked and slapped big time and then fired because they are the lamest losers around. I find it hard to imagine that there actually is someone on earth being able to come up with such a jelly-beanish, bloated, cheesy looking and whatever interface - while still having the guts to say this would even be remotely professional.

Seriously, it's this UI issue that will make me buy a Mac. I don't give a damn whether Steinberg will continue implementing kickass features as long as they don't COMPLETELY change the way their programs interact with the user. Because the only interaction there is is distraction from what I would be using them in the first place: making music that is.

For now, Logic 5.5.1 is still a very reasonable choice for me, but I guess the latest point I'll need to get a Mac is when Logic 7 will be around.

Parallely I will keep looking at Windows alternatives, such as Samplitude or Tracktion (or maybe even Live). They sure look more interesting than Cubase.

[Kingston]

I've seen samplitude v7 in use.

While I was impressed about all the features, overall quality and editing flexibility, it all seemed a bit overwhelming. It felt like there was one step too many to get things done.

And if MIDI is fully implemented only now, I fear it'll be a kind of strap on feature for a while, like too often happens.

I'm waiting to be positively suprised.

But there's still that nagging fear.

And sascha. This thread is starting to feel like funeral with every new post...



I've got LAP 5.5.1, but I've also got a shovel and a patch of good ground to dig in.

[original flipper]

HI

I would disagree with you based on the fact that (if you read the thread I pointed you too you would get a better idea of peoples thoughts) I downloaded Samplitude V7 and knocked up a little tune using VSTi's without having to read any instructions and did so in a matter of minutes - yes it has LOT'S of menu's and stuff but if I can do what I do in Logic in the same time in Samplitude without ANY help or reading of manuals then it tells me that if nothing else the program is usable.

For goodness sake you just need to download the Demo along with Live V4, Sonar V4 (when it comes out!) not forgetting SX V3 - which appears to also be in-bound, I could go on, there are loads of alternatives, if your not happy with any then you can always stick with Logic 5.5.

Flipper.

[Kingston]

I would disagree with you based on the fact that (if you read the thread I pointed you too you would get a better idea of peoples thoughts) I downloaded Samplitude V7 and knocked up a little tune using VSTi's without having to read any instructions and did so in a matter of minutes - yes it has LOT'S of menu's and stuff but if I can do what I do in Logic in the same time in Samplitude without ANY help or reading of manuals then it tells me that if nothing else the program is usable.
Flipper.

You got me wrong, that was just my initial impression. Like I said I'm waiting to be positively suprised.

And with you being ex-logic-man, it looks positive indeed.

[Kraznet]

I agree with Flipper on this one Kingston . I'm using Logic on my current project but Samplitude V8 looks enticing indeed . Especially with the new features including Logic-like drum editor , Melodyne-like Elastic audio , along with existing cool things like varispeed and reverse playback and also the Object Editor which allows you to cut up an audio part up and add FX and timestretch and pitch shift the individual parts .With all these things I'm seriously tempted to do the crossgrade.

Kraznet

[original flipper]

HI

If I was honest I would say my usage of Logic's features is probably 20-30% or in other words I barely scrape the surface; there are MASSES of features I NEVER USE, read enviroment, audio editing and manipulation, screensets and a whole load more (I can't name them as I don't use em!) - my point is many of the 'BIG BOY' sequencers out there have similar feature sets that are daunting and indeed intended to attract a large/diverse user base - I would be very surprised if the average user touched 50% of the features (on any regular basis) that SX, Logic, Sonar or any other sequencer has to offer.

I use mainly 3 aspects of Logic, Piano-Roll (Lot's), mixer page and arrange page, within this I only use a limited amount of features that are on offer - I would suggest you give Samplitude V8 a demo along with any other sequencer/host that takes your fancy -I am starting to transfer my (Important) songs to Midi-Files (95% of my compositions are based around Midi tracks triggering soft-synths/samplers ECT) which means I can easily convert them to my next host, which is Live V4/Reason and possibly a traditional sequencer that I am still to decide on.

Its hard moving on but I think getting a new DAW is the best time, I mean do you (or me, for that matter) really want to re-install Logic PC on a Brand New DAW - I would get converting your songs/saving out Audio and get ready to get busy!

Flipper.

[h4nc0]

Its hard moving on but I think getting a new DAW is the best time, I mean do you (or me, for that matter) really want to re-install Logic PC on a Brand New DAW - I would get converting your songs/saving out Audio and get ready to get busy!

Flipper.

That's exactly what I did. Logic 5.5.1 on a brand new AMD64 system with Raptor RAID0.