KVR Audio

dakkra · Post by **dakkra** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:53 am

Processing order is like so: Pitch/Morph/Amp (all per oscillator) -> Filter -> Effects. There is no master amp/envelope, and thus voice control is difficult.

Also the resonance lp3 is quite unstable and actually can be very close to self oscillating. It also almost never ends on a zero crossing, meaning you'll get a click at the end of the voice lifetime (referring to resonance sine).

ELEX · Post by **ELEX** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:45 am

Taron wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:53 pm Zaktly what I meant up there!

Oh..missed that. I only quickly scanned the thread for a quote of MrKarolus question.

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:32 am

Oh, no, no, it's alright, I'm just sayin': I'm with ya'!

...it's flaw enough that it can use a few voices noticing it.

ELEX · Post by **ELEX** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:28 pm

@Taron
Glad to hear that. Wasn't entirely sure, hence my post. Bit of a strange design choice, this filter-at-the-end construction. It doesn't sound bad, though. I quite like the 'special' waveforms. Reverb's pretty good too. I'll be leaving it for a day or two now. Back to the flaws on friday

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:42 pm

Yeah, when I designed my first vst, I was playing with filter and resonance, seeing the potential of it "swinging freely", which eventually made me explore this further in "Lord of the Springs", actually. But for it to make any sense it must not have a resonance greater than 1.0! That's the mad part. It basically just invites distortion and other unpredictable behaviors. Designing a resonance model requires a certain understanding regarding the behavior of "virtual springs", really. Tuning self-oscillation and staying on top of it is only easy in the most simple implementation. Once you try to model other characteristics, you really need to know what you're doing, otherwise it's a ticking bomb of sorts, hahaha. Cranking up some questionable resonance choice is certainly not a solution.
Yet, no matter what, you really, really want to have the amp envelope rule over the entire "sound generation" portion. Only FX can (and should) come after it, to which you can add a "resonator", of course, like many do. But OSC, FILTER and AMP should all be braced by the amp envelope!

MrKarolus · Post by **MrKarolus** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:32 pm

Got this surprise in Reaper when I tried to load my project

: The following effects were in the project file and are not available. REAPER will keep their configurations, but things may not sound as desired.
Track 1: VST3i: ToneZ (T0NIT0RMX)
Track 3: VST3i: ToneZ (T0NIT0RMX)
etc.
Managed to fix it by clearing cache/re-scaning VSTs. I would say this is Reapers problem, but it never happened before, so...

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:56 pm

I often wonder where you guys get the bravery from to keep using vst3?! A number of plugins that ALSO come as vst3 seem to have troubles in various hosts. Even with vst2, hosts deal with them differently, but that at least has some history. Vst3 may still just be "too young"?!

...if given the option, I'd rather hang with vst2.

doctorbob · Post by **doctorbob** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:12 pm

Not had any issues with the VST 2 in Reaper … 17 instances + EQ's, DC filters and 2 dragonflies - 18% cpu, no crashes, and presets save and load just fine. Of course the rule "save and save often" rules!

dB

h.s.j.e. · Post by **h.s.j.e.** » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:38 pm

Taron wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:56 pm I often wonder where you guys get the bravery from to keep using vst3?! A number of plugins that ALSO come as vst3 seem to have troubles in various hosts. Even with vst2, hosts deal with them differently, but that at least has some history. Vst3 may still just be "too young"?!
...if given the option, I'd rather hang with vst2.

Agreed. I was getting glitchy playback as well as a recurring situation in which the synth would pop, then go silent. I could fix the pop/silence by turning reverb on, playing a note and then turning reverb back off.

Then I realized I was in vst3. The problem hasn't yet recurred in vst2.

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:25 am

If the VST was made as VST2, the VST3 version is just a wrapper, or the other way round. You would need to ask the dev and use the primary version...
A VST3 that was made originally as VST2 will most likely not support features only available in VST3...

schiing · Post by **schiing** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:23 am

Eauson wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:10 pm Just thought I'd post initial thoughts,
ToneZ, doesn't save presets when you close the daw or install upon reopening [...]

This happened to me, too - in Studio One.

The culprit seemed to be this: I always store my presets in Studio One, and I usually don't bother updating/naming the VST presets. In ToneZ, however, if I store the Studio One preset without updating the 0-INIT as well, it always loads the init settings.

Also, thanks to z.prime & Darksynth for the heads-up on Cabbage - I had to move the entire library to my VST folder as well.

exponent1 · Post by **exponent1** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:57 am

Also, if for some reason your presets are getting reset on the GUI reload, please check if somehow a 0.0.tzp file is getting created in your ToneZ folder. Delete that file and you should be good to go.

@Eauson, I was also facing the issue you were facing about presets getting reset on GUI reload. Try the above and let us know if it works for you.

Eauson · Post by **Eauson** » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:33 am

@Schiing & exponent

Hey, many thanks, one of these solutions solved the recall of presets.

Now, my only new issue is on bouncing audio, everything reverts back to init

Vst3

vst2. Doesn't show up

Ohwell, thems the breaks
Can bounce live, if I can bring myself to do something this month

Taron · Post by **Taron** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:43 am

Ssssoooooo, I took a quick look at cabbage, loaded up the source of ToneZ and "fixed" it, by which I mean: Made it act nicer!

...envelopes properly implemented after filter, while the volume is properly multiplied (avol/=127, please!!!), same is with key velocity, which I separated out so it won't have to get multiplied for each oscillator. Fixed envelope ranges and made a processing cut at avol 1, because this thing is..uhm...I'm not a fan of CSound from what I'm looking at. But it acts nice now. Feels almost like a proper synth!

...except that it still is CPU hungry, of course. But hey...

...at least it is really workable now and doesn't sound half bad.

Eauson · Post by **Eauson** » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:23 am

Taron wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:43 am Ssssoooooo, I took a quick look at cabbage, loaded up the source of ToneZ and "fixed" it, by which I mean: Made it act nicer!
...envelopes properly implemented after filter, while the volume is properly multiplied (avol/=127, please!!!), same is with key velocity, which I separated out so it won't have to get multiplied for each oscillator. Fixed envelope ranges and made a processing cut at avol 1, because this thing is..uhm...I'm not a fan of CSound from what I'm looking at. But it acts nice now. Feels almost like a proper synth! ...except that it still is CPU hungry, of course. But hey... ...at least it is really workable now and doesn't sound half bad.

Soooo, does this mean the envelopes behave themselves and dont go on&on&on&on oh yeah & on

Woh is me, trying to get something going, I've got a 9month kitten who has had all the local Tomcats making sufficient noise to raise the dead

& she's pleading with me to let her out!!! Aghh, not more kittens

I've had enough, plus ToneZ

Well done Taron

One Synth Challenge #132: ToneZ by t0nit0rmx (MrKarollus Wins!)