Reason Block - the one function that makes all the difference

[jens]

But contents of Blocks - MIDI and audio clips - will obviously adjust playback speed to the changed tempo, too. That's nothing extraordinary.

No, as far as I am aware of it Reason doesn't feature anything like that… the clips' tempo can follow the Song's tempo but not the other way around, which is what he meant.

[antic604]

But contents of Blocks - MIDI and audio clips - will obviously adjust playback speed to the changed tempo, too. That's nothing extraordinary.

No, as far as I am aware of it Reason doesn't feature anything like that… the clips' tempo can follow the Song's tempo but not the other way around, which is what he meant.

But "the other way around" is just tempo automation or modulation thereof from e.g. a MIDI controller.

[Etienne1973]

Can't you do this in pretty much any DAW that supports "regions" or "arrangements"?

I'm also curious. Seems like a déjà vu to me. Doesn't Apple Logic provide the same core feature with region aliases and region folders? If my memory serves me right even since the Atari years?

[jens]

But contents of Blocks - MIDI and audio clips - will obviously adjust playback speed to the changed tempo, too. That's nothing extraordinary.

No, as far as I am aware of it Reason doesn't feature anything like that… the clips' tempo can follow the Song's tempo but not the other way around, which is what he meant.

But "the other way around" is just tempo automation or modulation thereof from e.g. a MIDI controller.

But he talks about the case where you actually recorded audio from some instrument and the sequencer adapts itself to that tempo (of whatever you recorded) - totally different thing,

[jens]

Can't you do this in pretty much any DAW that supports "regions" or "arrangements"?

I'm also curious. Seems like a déjà vu to me. Doesn't Apple Logic provide the same core feature with region aliases and region folders? If my memory serves me right even since the Atari years?

This thread here is exactly about the one big difference. It's what this thread is about.

I am having a déjà vu too right now. It's like I explained something in detail, someone replies, totally ignoring my very point, I say "but that's ignoring my very point, the cause that made me start this thread in the first place - the Thing this thread is about", then someone replies, totally ignoring what I explained, and so forth… not a very pleasant déjà vu by the way…


As far as I am aware of it, two persons (eclipxe and antic) actually really got it so far.

[jens]

But he talks about the case where you actually recorded audio from some instrument and the sequencer adapts itself to that tempo (of whatever you recorded) - totally different thing,

And he is absolutely right of course, because these transisitions I was talking about often include small tempo changes too, but I ignored that for this thread (to not make matters even more complicated).

Sometimes I put them in later on, playing around with them until it feels right (which is often enough the case after having gotten rid of them again…. )

[Etienne1973]

Can't you do this in pretty much any DAW that supports "regions" or "arrangements"?

I'm also curious. Seems like a déjà vu to me. Doesn't Apple Logic provide the same core feature with region aliases and region folders? If my memory serves me right even since the Atari years?

This thread here is exactly about the one big difference. ...

Whatever this one big difference might be. Please explain it for fools like me in a less cryptic way.

[jens]

I would think I did so in the first post of this thread:

I don't know why I never tried this myself, but reading through the SOS article on Blocks I learnt than Song-mode you can add and record Clips over the greyed out block based ones and those have a higher priority. That's fantastic!

That's such an elegant solution to the problem. You can start Building your song based on Blocks, and whereever a transition isn't smooth, you add stuff on top of it a) without having to change/edit your actual Blocks (i.e. sections) and b) in song-mode it's super easy to spot where you added stuff that's not part of the Blocks. If you e.g. want to make a looped drum-rhythm more natural by adding breaks here and there, you'll see exactly where you put them with one quick glance in song-mode. If you want to try a slightly different rhythm, you can do that in Block-mode and still can leave the breaks where they are. Want to add a different ending in one certain bar to a guitar pattern that keeps repeating? Just record it in song-mode - yadda yadda.

What is cryptic about it? What is that is unclear or which I should seek to word better?

[jens]

Here's the Soundonsound article I mentioned:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/block

Thirdly, you can freely record and add non‑block material anywhere you like in Song view. It really is just like the normal, linear sequencer of old, except that it's got that extra Block track. This makes the system hugely flexible. And thank goodness, because it's pretty much a necessity when adding vocals in Record. Think about it — you might use the same 'Verse' Block three times, but if you'd recorded a vocal as part of it, you'd get the same lyrics three times too. Not usually what you want! So the solution is to use the Block/Song system to lay out your backing track, but then in Song View create a vocal track and record on to it in conventional linear fashion 'on top of' the Blocks. Doing this requires no special consideration, and no extra steps — just work as normal.

In Song View you use the Pencil tool and the new Blocks pop‑up menu to literally draw song sections in the Blocks track.
This sort of 'linear overlay' can also be used to create little links between sections/Blocks, or to add tiny localised variations. You can record right on top of Block material, in any track, and linear song‑mode clips always have priority over Block material. To give an example, if I needed a simple, one-bar song intro ahead of a 'Verse 1' Block, maybe a drum fill and a bass lead, I almost certainly wouldn't bother trying to create it in a separate Block. What's the point? It would only happen once, and doing it in Song mode would allow me to hear much more easily how it integrates with the verse.

The highlighted bit is what I mean.

Is that clearer?

[jens]

So, in yet other words:

you basically have two layers, "Blocks" and normal "Song" clips. At any and for any track point on the Song timeline you can you use either, but you can also use Song clips on top of Block clips and for their duration they will be played back instead of the Block clips beneath. These Underlying Block clips can however still be altered in Block mode and the changes will affect every occurence in Song mode.

[antic604]

But he talks about the case where you actually recorded audio from some instrument and the sequencer adapts itself to that tempo (of whatever you recorded) - totally different thing.

Well, there are two things:
1) DAW detecting the tempo of what's being played (or imported) and making a tempo map out of it
2) DAW adjusting playback to specified tempo

I understand you're talking about it in reference to live performance, that's why 1st doesn't really apply, or at least could be approximated by someone tapping some pedal to give the tempo, which could then be transmitted to a DAW to modulate project's tempo. Then we're in the 2nd case and most (if not all?) DAWs can do it.

Or are there really DAWs that "listen" to whatever is coming through their monitoring track LIVE and adjust playback speed on the fly?

[jens]

Please explain it for fools like me in a less cryptic way.

So a simple example:

you have a two bar guitar lick for a verse, that is eight bars long.

This verse is a Block. You draw it in Song mode from bar nine until bar 37. (so the last one is only four bar long).
At bar 37 a bridge Begins.

The verse reappears from Bar 81 until bar 97.

So now you want to have a better transition into the bridge.

In Song mode at 36.3.1 you start recording something else for the guitar-lick that is a bar long (so it reaches over into the Bridge)
This will not affect your Block except that the guitar will change between 36.3.1. and 37.3.1. (ie. exactly where you put it)

Likewise you can record variations (say) between 16.3.1. and between 17 and 24.1.1 and 25 and between 81.1.1 and 83.1.1. It will be the same. And the same principle of course applies to all tracks. At any time you are free to add bits everywhere.

Now say you are not satisfied with the original two bar lick. It's what you started out with and the playing is a little sloppy.
If you replace it in the Block, this will affect all places this Block is being used in the Song. You may even just add another variation that replaces (say) the third repetition.

[jens]

But he talks about the case where you actually recorded audio from some instrument and the sequencer adapts itself to that tempo (of whatever you recorded) - totally different thing.

Well, there are two things:
1) DAW detecting the tempo of what's being played (or imported) and making a tempo map out of it
2) DAW adjusting playback to specified tempo

I understand you're talking about it in reference to live performance, that's why 1st doesn't really apply, or at least could be approximated by someone tapping some pedal to give the tempo, which could then be transmitted to a DAW to modulate project's tempo. Then we're in the 2nd case and most (if not all?) DAWs can do it.

Or are there really DAWs that "listen" to whatever is coming through their monitoring track LIVE and adjust playback speed on the fly?

Sonar does that on the fly iIrc, but I actually meant your 1) above. Can Reason do that?

[Spring Goose]

But contents of Blocks - MIDI and audio clips - will obviously adjust playback speed to the changed tempo, too. That's nothing extraordinary.

No, as far as I am aware of it Reason doesn't feature anything like that… the clips' tempo can follow the Song's tempo but not the other way around, which is what he meant.

I thought it's unique to Cubase and Nuendo.

I thought it was worth/relevant to mention in this thread.

[Spring Goose]

But he talks about the case where you actually recorded audio from some instrument and the sequencer adapts itself to that tempo (of whatever you recorded) - totally different thing,

And he is absolutely right of course, because these transisitions I was talking about often include small tempo changes too, but I ignored that for this thread (to not make matters even more complicated).

Sometimes I put them in later on, playing around with them until it feels right (which is often enough the case after having gotten rid of them again…. )

you get what I meant