Bug-free Mac DAW?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

So if you care for a very stable DAW system, which still will run in 10 years, do not use macos.

My first Macbook Pro lasted seven years, until it died due to accidental water-damage. It was stable, through many OS updates, right till the end.

My current Macbook Pro is coming close to being eight-years-old, and is not only (and always has been) extremely stable, but due to upgrades runs better than when I first bought it. There isn't a thing I can't do with it, musically-speaking, that occasional freezing and bouncing-in-place (not to mention Logic's newer ability to dynamically load/unload plugs), don't mitigate. It's also Catalina-compatible, and may even have the requisite hardware to qualify it for another couple of OS iterations.

Ten years doesn't really seem like such a stretch, for me. I'd be interested to know how many Windows musicians have similar stabilty, and for so many years

[Hanz Meyzer]

Gsus X, I did not say Windows is more stable or never breaks for a short time, but Microsoft never simply breaks 50% of all apps by purpose. But Apple regularly does that. A developer usually can assume that his/her app still will run after the next win10 update. But needs to be afraid that the software will completely break after next Apple update. What do you think this will feel like? Apple even removes frameworks without providing an alternative or wrapper. Or cripples frameworks, slows it down, even without providing any information about it. Apple is an horror show. End of discussion.

By "stability" I meant simply a working software without the need to patch/update it.

[jonljacobi]

Not excusing Apple’s often atrocious behavior. They’ve been jackasses from nearly day one. But I do like my iMacs and their 5K displays. I just don’t upgrade the OS if I don’t need to. I run High Sierra because of the third party NVMe support, but have zero reason to update.

I also run Windows 10 the vast majority of the time for professional reasons. And because its fonts are easier on my eyes. I run macOS primarily for Logic and Final Cut Pro, though Logic is not my main DAW.

[thecontrolcentre]

I'd be interested to know how many Windows musicians have similar stabilty, and for so many years

I've got a Win XP laptop that's working fine at 14 years old ...

[Michael L]

Apple is a horror show.

This is true, with much supporting evidence.
However, many Mac users still prefer MacOS over Windows.
This creates a quandary:
Is there any current Mac DAW whose developers have found a way to run all
plugins, without going broke fixing OSX issues?

[Hanz Meyzer]

Yes, that's why I still use macos, too. Once it runs, it runs, and never ever crashes. But after the next update... A mess again!

[oneway]

Apple is a horror show.

This is true, with much supporting evidence.
However, many Mac users still prefer MacOS over Windows.
This creates a quandary:
Is there any current Mac DAW whose developers have found a way to run all
plugins, without going broke fixing OSX issues?

Your expectations are unrealistic. Windows or Mac, there are tons of plugin / daw combinations that will crash. It changes version to version and depends on your personal OS, DAW, and plugin updating frequency quite a bit.

When I used Pro Tools on a separate partition with El Capitan it was incredibly stable because 1) I only had a few plugins and 2) never updated my OS, Pro Tools, or my plugins.

Now I update everything but my OS much more frequently and every version in my DAW, like clockwork, there’s some combination of plugins that doesn’t work right. No matter who it is, nobody’s testing for everything and something breaks. You can insulate yourself from these problems but the answer is not switching DAWs. It’s a huge productivity drain and I don’t recommend it.

[Atlatnesiti]

No DAWS are bug free regardless of OS you’re using.
Too sophisticated, too complex and too many features to satisfy our taste for more.
Deal with it and hope for updates that will fix some, but certainty not all of them- ever...

[machinesworking]

No DAWS are bug free regardless of OS you’re using.
Too sophisticated, too complex and too many features to satisfy our taste for more.
Deal with it and hope for updates that will fix some, but certainty not all of them- ever...

This is true, but the counterpoint is clear. It's better than it's ever been.
Things are just more stable than ever, on both platforms.

Take it from someone using DAWs and MIDI sequencers before that since the 80's.

It's a weird thread to me, most of the top 15 DAWs out there are stable on both platforms, with only minor non show stopping bugs. This is much different than Reaktor being a crash fest on OS X and Absynth being a CPU pig on Windows for years in the early 2000's, just to name examples.

[Hanz Meyzer]

... only that macos daws stop to work with each new Apple update, while this does not happen on Windows. Do you finally understand that? So you can conclude that macos is not a stable system at all. Only if you give up essential security updates.

[machinesworking]

... only that macos daws stop to work with each new Apple update, while this does not happen on Windows. Do you finally understand that? So you can conclude that macos is not a stable system at all. Only if you give up essential security updates.

Eh? yes, it does happen on Windows, just not as often. Even with Windows, at some point 64 bit is gone, at some point an older plug in or program needs updates. At some point people move on. I'm running Mojave with Office 2011, Alchemy, Camel Phat etc. etc. a lot of ten year old programs. Mojave will be compatible with most things for a long long time.
As an end user I see no point in jumping through hoops because the latest greatest is here anymore. Staying an OS behind on at least one machine usually the desktop, is IMO just smart. Waiting a few months on a major release of your main DAW is also smart.

I mean I suppose if I was ridiculous I could get mad about having to update my ten year old version of Office if I chose to get a new computer, but why would I expect it to work in the first place?

Also, as an end user, the one thing you don't pay for with Apple is the OS, there's no incentive to update unless I get a new computer if it's breaking my ancient software, because Apple want tighter security etc. If it was a paid upgrade like Windows is, it wouldn't even be a discussion for end users, you would simply wait for the next laptop etc. upgrade to get the new OS.

I'm trying to figure out which Mac DAWs stop working with each mac OS update? That's a crazy statement, 15 years ago Apple went Intel, that caused upgrades to be necessary. Catalina is demanding 64 bit applications, but you do not have to move to Catalina. I plan on keeping my despot on Mojave, forever.

Are you using Logic? That's a DAW that breaks with each new update, but it hasn't been a paid upgrade in what? 7 years? Free updates hardly count as broken.

[fmr]

Most of the time, third party plugins crashes DAW.

Quite true, but unpredictable.
For example, I opened a simple, recently-updated and Catalina-compatible plugin (iZotope Vocal Doubler) in four hosts under OSX Mojave. It ran fine in one (VST), crashed two (VST and AU), and had a half-blank GUI in one (AU). Every plugin I own will run fine in at least one host, but no host will run them all. Thus I was wondering if there was "One DAW to Rule Them All" or if this erratic OSX compatibility is an endless game of Whack-a-Mole.

Did it ever cross your mind that's a problem of Catalina?

Fernando, he literally said he is running Mojave.

oops I was led in error by the "Catalina-compatible" statement.

[fmr]

Ten years doesn't really seem like such a stretch, for me. I'd be interested to know how many Windows musicians have similar stabilty, and for so many years

My current Windows desktop machine (yes, I'm a hybrid ) started with Windows XP, and has somewhat around 10 years too, if I remember well, or even more.

Currently, I have Windows XP still installed (although I didn't boot to it since a very lomg time), Windows 7 and Windows 10. Very, very stable, and high performing machine. I even play in it, and my only problem, currently, resides in the graphics card, which I plan to replace.

[Hanz Meyzer]

@machinesworking you will have to use a non Apple daw to get a clue about this. Of course Apple provide updates for all their software straight after an os update.

But for any other daws it will turn into a mess: first it will take a lot of months, until the daw will run again. Then you will have to wait like 2 years, until all your plugin developers will adapt (or not) to Apple s recent, poorly documented, extremely egocentrical changes. All my daws regularly break. For example, 10.11 broke all audio unit hosts. 10.12 broke a lot 32 bit guis. 10.13 broke a lot of guis and performance. 10.14 crippled opengl, slowed down coregraphics. And so on and on.

Realistically after an Apple update, you will have to wait 1 to 2 years, until you can update without problems. This is not the case on Windows. Also Microsoft finally understood This problem and stopped with useless numbering jumping.

In contradiction Apple always makes old versions unusable by purpose, even without a technical reason, e.g. xcode. Since most developers rely on xcode, they are now double time scammed.

[fmr]

@fmr you will have to use a non Apple daw to get a clue about this. Of course Apple provide updates for all their software straight after an os update.

But for any other daws it will turn into a mess: first it will take a lot of months, until the daw will run again. Then you will have to wait like 2 years, until all your plugin developers will adapt (or not) to Apple s recent, poorly documented, extremely egocentrical changes. All my daws regularly break. For example, 10.11 broke all audio unit hosts. 10.12 broke a lot 32 bit guis. 10.13 broke a lot of guis and performance. 10.14 crippled opengl, slowed down coregraphics. And so on and on.

Realistically after an Apple update, you will have to wait 1 to 2 years, until you can update without problems. This is not the case on Windows. Also Microsoft finally understood This problem and stopped with useless numbering jumping.

In contradiction Apple always makes old versions unusable by purpose, even without a technical reason, e.g. xcode. Since most developers rely on xcode, they are now double time scammed.

Hey, you are preaching to the priest

I am the guy who wrote to NEVER update to the latest OS X version, and always keep one version behind, at least. And my hosts are ALL non-Apple (currently mainly Cubase, Digital Performer, and REAPER).

I was in Sierra until last fall, when I updated to Mojave because some software demanded at least High Sierra (don't remember which one was it anymore).

I don't like Apple much more than you, believe me.