Logic 7 released

[Sascha Franck]

Thing is, ALL internal Logic plugins behave the same when it comes to ergonomics.
Know how the filter button of the EXS feels when adjusting it? Fine! At the very same time you know how ALL the buttons feel.
I must say when it comes to GUI design (overall and for specific items), nobody beats the Emagic designers. Everything's just (almost) there where you'd expect it to be, there's not much space wasting going on. This is especially true for the arrangement - just compare to that jeelybeanish, bloated Cubase arrange piece of utter crap which seems to be made by fired toy designers searching for a new playground (Note: I'm only talking about the GUI).

When it comes to sound quality, you *may* find better than the internal plugins - but DEFENITELY not for free. There's no freebie working as well as Space Designer (SIR is nice but completely unuseable in realtime), there's no synth such as ES2, you won't even find delays being the same as tape/stereo delay.
The EXS is still a sampler which is great for bread and butter sounds, the EVD6 is unbeatable, same goes for EVB3 (at least for the Leslie portion of it), etc etc.

Seriously, for a suspected street price around 800 bucks, Logic has got to be the most complete and good sounding package ever (oh yes, I know, BONES will perhaps chime in, telling us that Orion is at least as good, probably even better - but you just can't stop all the clueless people).
Apart from perhaps some sample library you won't need anything else to come up with some VERY serious results (OK, mastering might be another thing), regardless of musical style.

Ah well... I almost forgot: You need a Mac as well. But with the new features I'm tempted more than ever before to finally save some bucks...

Btw, I wonder if they finally adressed the lousy audio performance of LogicPro.

[putte]

sorry marc, in fact i didnt get that it was about free plugins .. sorry.

putte

[snooky]

marc...I´d say that "space designer" could be beaten by "Sir" no?...why? cos it´s free!

Also, tho´there are no exact replacement for ES2, but I´d say that any VA software with some fx thrown onto it could yield the same quality sounds (Asynth again)...and Yes I have tried ES2!

When it comes to the limiters...Try Ddummers stuff...his work is exellent (and if he´d only release the tl.4030 or what´s it called!) Also kjerhus audio has some impressive limiter/compressor plugs as are the Fishfillets!


There are a nr of tapedelay FX out there...the E-Phonic "Tapedelay" is the best of them all! Does fx that I haven´t heard anywhere else

Ringshifter eh? I haven´t used that tbh, but I guess that it won´t do anything that some of the free mangling plugs do...

the linar phase EQ:

Try the "Nyquist EQ" on the smart electronix homepage...that plug has a great sound. it´s to bad that the interface isn´t much. But for general tweaking it´s nice. Won´t cos´t you a dime!

I´m sure ppl will chip in with even more suggestions!

[marc]

sorry marc, in fact i didnt get that it was about free plugins .. sorry.

Ahhh no problem, and I'm sorry my reply was so exasperated, it really was cuz of mindless' many replies with still no real response, but not you just making one reply, so it shouldn't have been directed at you, sorry.

[snooky]

read above!

[egbert]

Mindless - I agree about the Ephonic Retro Delay - absolutely superb. I use a bunch of delays including the lovely PSP 42/84 but I really like the freeware ones like the Ephonic one and the Bionic Delay.

DDrummer's Tubelimit and TLS Maximiser are great too - I haven't had a chance to hear his new one yet unfortunately. I hope he decides that we - the ungrateful and the unwashed - are worthy of his continued blessings. He has many supporters on KVR.

Eg

[kuniklo]

marc...I´d say that "space designer" could be beaten by "Sir" no?...why? cos it´s free!

Also, tho´there are no exact replacement for ES2, but I´d say that any VA software with some fx thrown onto it could yield the same quality sounds (Asynth again)...and Yes I have tried ES2!

The big selling point of Logic's plugin set is that it's a coherent, consistent, and basically complete set of plugs. I'm sure you could replace many of them with comparable freebies, and most of them with commercial alternatives, but that's kind of missing the idea. $1000 for a complete package that you can expect to work out of the box and cover all your bases is a pretty exceptional deal. Apple's way ahead in this respect.

A question for Logic users: how good are the built-in compressors and eq? How do they compare to Voxengo or Kjaerhus, for instance?

[marc]

Thanks for the specifics now (our last messages crossed)! Although, you still haven't replied to the other half of my question, which is very important: Have you actually compared these with Logic's in terms of sound quality, or are you simply listed free alternatives that do the same sort of thing? I definitely know about oodles of free alternatives (except for some things like Spectral Gate, Autofilter, ES2, Pitch Correction, etc., though maybe I just don't know about alternatives for those), however it's the sound quality that I'm really interested in, if any freebies match that for the things I listed.

marc...I´d say that "space designer" could be beaten by "Sir" no?...why? cos it´s free!

Though someone else said not realtime? And also, can it do synthesized IRs? And can it do sample rate transposition of IRs for strange effects? Those are mostly the 2 ways that I personally use Space Designer, that's why I ask. And again, of course the sound quality question.

Also, tho´there are no exact replacement for ES2, but I´d say that any VA software with some fx thrown onto it could yield the same quality sounds (Asynth again)...and Yes I have tried ES2!

Yeah, I know that it's harder to talk about direct replacements for synths cuz each always seem to have some particular traits.

When it comes to the limiters...Try Ddummers stuff...his work is exellent (and if he´d only release the tl.4030 or what´s it called!) Also kjerhus audio has some impressive limiter/compressor plugs as are the Fishfillets!

There are a nr of tapedelay FX out there...the E-Phonic "Tapedelay" is the best of them all!

Thanks, I only knew about Fish Fillets, I'll check out those others.

Ringshifter eh? I haven´t used that tbh, but I guess that it won´t do anything that some of the free mangling plugs do...

Well again, this is my point: Logic's in many cases simply do a far better job than any other s I've heard. I certainly haven't found a ring modulater that sounds as good as Logic's, and also it has some other non-standard features.

the linar phase EQ:

Try the "Nyquist EQ" on the smart electronix homepage...that plug has a great sound. it´s to bad that the interface isn´t much. But for general tweaking it´s nice. Won´t cos´t you a dime!

Yeah, nice, but definitely not as good quality in my opinion.

[marc]

A question for Logic users: how good are the built-in compressors and eq? How do they compare to Voxengo or Kjaerhus, for instance?

I don't really like Logic's compressors, but I also know other people who absolutely love them. I know folks producing billboard top 10 hits using no compressor other than them, so hmmm, maybe it's just that I can't seem to get good results out of them, I don't know, they always pump too much for me. But I think that the Channel EQ and Linear Phase EQ are the best staple EQs out there. There are other EQs with more "color" that are great, too, but for general EQ needs, they're the best I've heard. I haven't used Voxengo or Kjaerhus stuff, though.

[kuniklo]

Another question for Logic people:

The new play-order stuff in SX3 looks pretty cool, sort of Live-lite within Cubase. Does Logic have anything similar? I seem to remember hearing that Logic has some kind of horizontal folder concept, making it possible to, for instance, mark a section as a verse or chorus and duplicate or move it as a chunk. True? Can you jump around between these sections with hotkeys if so?

[egbert]

The big selling point of Logic's plugin set is that it's a coherent, consistent, and basically complete set of plugs. I'm sure you could replace many of them with comparable freebies, and most of them with commercial alternatives, but that's kind of missing the idea. $1000 for a complete package that you can expect to work out of the box and cover all your bases is a pretty exceptional deal. Apple's way ahead in this respect.

True

A question for Logic users: how good are the built-in compressors and eq? How do they compare to Voxengo or Kjaerhus, for instance?

Not even close. - GCO and even little Crunchessor kick seven shades out of the basic Logic compressor which is good in its own way.

Neodymium and Firium/Eqium, GEq, CurveEQ, GlissEq, MasterQ from PSP - these plugs are in an entirely different league to the Native Logic plugs - and they cost accordingly.

Eg

[snooky]

marc...no, Sir can´t do everything that Spacedesigner can...but realistically, can you design a freeware product with all the bells and wistles of commersial ones...technically yes, but estetically I don´t think that many devs are willing to do that.

The freeware that´s out there is great and for the "price" there´s really no comparison...

On the other hand...Logics stuff is great, but you´d have to pay for it...

That´s my point really (typos or not )

peace!

[marc]

marc...no, Sir can´t do everything that Spacedesigner can...but realistically, can you design a freeware product with all the bells and wistles of commersial ones...technically yes, but estetically I don´t think that many devs are willing to do that.

The freeware that´s out there is great and for the "price" there´s really no comparison...

On the other hand...Logics stuff is great, but you´d have to pay for it...

That´s my point really (typos or not )

peace!

Okay, I can agree with that, and believe me, I love free plugs and believe in them (I've made plenty myself). But do realize that this is a far cry from your original statement: "there´s alot of free stuff around that blows the pants of Logics native plugs," hence all of this back and forth. You led me on!

[snooky]

marc...no, Sir can´t do everything that Spacedesigner can...but realistically, can you design a freeware product with all the bells and wistles of commersial ones...technically yes, but estetically I don´t think that many devs are willing to do that.

The freeware that´s out there is great and for the "price" there´s really no comparison...

On the other hand...Logics stuff is great, but you´d have to pay for it...

That´s my point really (typos or not )

peace!

Okay, I can agree with that, and believe me, I love free plugs and believe in them (I've made plenty myself). But do realize that this is a far cry from your original statement: "there´s alot of free stuff around that blows the pants of Logics native plugs," hence all of this back and forth. You led me on!

NO! I still stand by my original statment!

There ARE alot of freeware that blows the pants of logics plugs...Have you tried "stardust"? for example...there´s not a Logic plug like that.

[marc]

NO! I still stand by my original statment!

There ARE alot of freeware that blows the pants of logics plugs...Have you tried "stardust"? for example...there´s not a Logic plug like that.

Okay, this could go on forever with so many misinterpretations... Again, we were talking about direct replacements. I mean, I'm pretty into all of the plugins that I've made myself (Destroy FX stuff), they're some of my favorites, but obviously that's not part of this discussion, none of them remotely resemble those included in Logic. And hence it's real good that things like that exist and I love them, but again, this was a specific topic...