List of MPE Hardware Controllers (and More)

[ThomasHelzle]

Maybe make a separate list for expressively challenged lame half-assed MPE...

I don't think the MPE specs require implementation of all of the axii, so supporting one of them IS MPE, although at the same time from the users perspective, it's not really.
The way the Korg implements it sounds 'correct' to me and the Hydra basically sounds like it has input-MPE but doesn't output MPE compatible pressure.
Of course they slap that MPE badge on their controllers to impress the potential buyer, that is how our world works.
On the other hand, having more controllers with poly AT is a good thing, no matter what.

Midi 2.0 so far seems a pure marketing gag, my GF bought a Roland E-Piano some years ago with a Midi 2.0 badge on it...
And that keyboard has not a single controller on it, no pitchbend, no modwheel, no pressure nothing. It only supports a single pedal for CC64. So I have no idea what would be Midi 2.0-ish about it. But hey, marketing...

Cheers,

Tom

[SteveElbows]

So, this poses an important question. Does MPE pressure fulfill the definition of an MPE-compatible controller?

If I resort to the official ratified MPE specification, the following picture emerges:

The language used in sentences in the document is clear enough that CC74 is an optional third dimension for MPE controllers (MPE transmitters). It doesnt explicitly state that per note pitch bend is mandatory, but it mostly talks as though it is (because otherwise why bother with MPE).

When it comes to a MIDI Message table in Appendix E of the document, things are split into columns for transmitters and receivers on the manager channel, and the same for the member (MPE note) channels. Each slot is labelled M, O, and P, for Mandatory, Optional, Prohibited for various differnt MIDI messages. On the receivers side of thing, pitch bend, channel pressure and cc74 are all labelled mandatory. But on the transmitters side of things, all three are labelled as optional!

Therefore I would conclude that when it comes to the official spec, when it comes to controllers, the use of the term MPE for the Korg is compatible with the official spec.

Beyond the rigid world of the official spec, and into the real world, we've already had a situation for some years where the Hydrasynth has a MPE transmission mode which only support the one dimension of per-note expression (Im not considering release velocity because thats not actually part of th MPE spec, its part of the original MIDI spec and doesnt require channel per note to function). And most people who get into using fully fledged MPE controllers are very aware of the joys of the per not pitch bend, and the obvious lack of a means to achieve the same on a completely traditional keyboard. A lot of music tech enthusiasts are aware of this side of things too, but some of them sometimes slip into a less meaningful use of buzzwords when a device such as the Korg is announced - they are perfectly capable of understanding that in that context MPE offers little over poly aftertouch other than compatibility with MPE synths, but this distinction still goes missing on occasions when discussing a new product like that one.

I think a different sort of compatibility issue sporadically raises its head these days, although I dont have time to properly double-check my facts on this one, I'm going from memory: When Loopop reviewed the new Native Instruments keyboards, I think he ended up having to point out that you have to disable MPE mode in various Ableton Live devices (Lives built in instruments etc) in order for the traditional poly aftertouch MIDI messages from the native instruments keyboard to actually work properly in that environment. A tedious issue that people are somewhat more likely to run into in this era where Ableton started promoting MPE heavily and perhaps having it on by default in their MPE-compatible soft instruments. A scenario where keyboards like the new Korgs have an advantage by supporting MPE even though they cannot harness MPEs other dimensions of expressivity.

[SteveElbows]

The ROLI announcement was indeed the return of the Seaboard Block. New M version images imply some slight changes to surface shape. Also firmware configurability tweaks and a physical MIDI output (TRS type). Preorder direct from them, first batch estimated late March 2024.

[SteveElbows]

It looks like on the Seaboard Block M the dna connectors are only available on the left and right sides of the device, and they've moved the ports to the top side of the device.

I see ROLI also wrote a piece about top MPE controllers for 2023, which includes the Linnstrument. However I think they've made quite a mess of a key detail about the Linnstrument, and they've also decided to go on about isomorphic layout on the Push 3 rather than the Linnstrument. https://roli.com/stories/choosing-the-r ... nt-a-guide

Here is the bit about the Linnstrument that strikes me as being totally wrong, unless I've had a brain fart this evening:

If you read up on the instrument, you might notice that there are only 4-5 octave ranges depending on model. Some quick math might lead to questioning how that’s possible with so many pads. This is because Linnstrument does not use the Western chromatic scale as a standard. While this setting is editable, this setting opens up new dimensions in a way that only players of non-Western music modes would understand. By standardizing a note field beyond 12 chromatics, discovering a completely new dimension to your sound is joyously inevitable.

[John the Savage]

WTF, Roli?

Roger, you need to set them straight on this... It borders on libel.

I really hate it when people pontificate about shit they don't understand.

Argh!

[SteveElbows]

I was so distracted by that howler of an error that I didnt pay much attention to whether there were others too, except that the link they've chosen for the Linnstrument probably isnt the most appropriate one.

The article does place highly in google search results for certain terms such as 'MPE instrument guide' at the moment.

[FranklyFlawless]

I will address the responses regarding this MPE pressure issue and the Seaboard Block M within the next few days, right after I do my manual fetching of MPE-related content from various sources first.

Thank you for your patience.

[FranklyFlawless]

Okay, I will address your relevant responses.

Maybe make a separate list for expressively challenged lame half-assed MPE...

Not happening: maintaining these two lists gets in the way of developing my LinnStrument proficiency, as I have to dedicate time and attention outside of that periodically. Regardless, I am fine continuing to maintain them so that I am aware of all MPE hardware options on the market for my own sake of comparison.

Technically, I already maintain a third list, but it is much more manageable since entries are hardly added or updated. I would not want to deal with maintaining a fourth list of incomplete MPE products if I also have to periodically check if they eventually get updated to use complete MPE implementations.

Midi 2.0 so far seems a pure marketing gag, my GF bought a Roland E-Piano some years ago with a Midi 2.0 badge on it...
And that keyboard has not a single controller on it, no pitchbend, no modwheel, no pressure nothing. It only supports a single pedal for CC64. So I have no idea what would be Midi 2.0-ish about it. But hey, marketing...

Probably the Roland A-88MKII. If you want to know about its MIDI 2.0 capabilities, read this PDF document.

Also, if the LinnStrument ever gets a MIDI 2.0 update, I may consider changing these maintained threads to MIDI 2.0 instead of MPE: I have every reason to ensure I use the best MIDI 2.0 hardware synthesizers with it.

I don't think the MPE specs require implementation of all of the axii, so supporting one of them IS MPE, although at the same time from the users perspective, it's not really.
The way the Korg implements it sounds 'correct' to me and the Hydra basically sounds like it has input-MPE but doesn't output MPE compatible pressure.

On the receivers side of thing, pitch bend, channel pressure and cc74 are all labelled mandatory. But on the transmitters side of things, all three are labelled as optional!

Therefore I would conclude that when it comes to the official spec, when it comes to controllers, the use of the term MPE for the Korg is compatible with the official spec.

Beyond the rigid world of the official spec, and into the real world, we've already had a situation for some years where the Hydrasynth has a MPE transmission mode which only support the one dimension of per-note expression (Im not considering release velocity because thats not actually part of th MPE spec, its part of the original MIDI spec and doesnt require channel per note to function).

Okay, it looks like we agree on the Korg Keystages being listed as MPE hardware controllers, so their entries stay. How about the Hydrasynth product line? Should they be added as entries into this list or not?

New entries:

• [Guitar] Stretchi - Unreleased
• [Keyboard] ROLI Seaboard BLOCK M - Released

[BobDog]

It looks like on the Seaboard Block M the dna connectors are only available on the left and right sides of the device, and they've moved the ports to the top side of the device.

I see ROLI also wrote a piece about top MPE controllers for 2023, which includes the Linnstrument. However I think they've made quite a mess of a key detail about the Linnstrument, and they've also decided to go on about isomorphic layout on the Push 3 rather than the Linnstrument. https://roli.com/stories/choosing-the-r ... nt-a-guide

Here is the bit about the Linnstrument that strikes me as being totally wrong, unless I've had a brain fart this evening:

If you read up on the instrument, you might notice that there are only 4-5 octave ranges depending on model. Some quick math might lead to questioning how that’s possible with so many pads. This is because Linnstrument does not use the Western chromatic scale as a standard. While this setting is editable, this setting opens up new dimensions in a way that only players of non-Western music modes would understand. By standardizing a note field beyond 12 chromatics, discovering a completely new dimension to your sound is joyously inevitable.

That's an absolute howler, makes you wonder if it is a genuine mistake or negative marketing?

[ThomasHelzle]

It's Roli.

[FranklyFlawless]

A quick update: I emailed Hugh Aynsley about the Stretchi and its status. Here was their response:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your message and interest in Stretchi. Unfortunately, the project is on hold at the moment as I am now doing a full-time PhD in instrument design. Stretchi was never commercially released as I was never able to build up a team to take it that far!

Appreciate your message,
Hugh

[FranklyFlawless]

New entry:

• [Interfaces] Noise Engineering Univer Inter - WIP

[FranklyFlawless]

Status updates:

• [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 49 - Preorder to Released
• [Keyboard] Korg Keystage 61 - Preorder to Released
• [Interfaces] Noise Engineering Univer Inter - WIP to Released

Removed entries:

• [DIY Sensel Morph Projects] LinnStrument Mini
• [DIY Sensel Morph Projects] Space Palette Pro
• [DIY Sensel Morph Projects] Willowisp

[FranklyFlawless]

New entry:

• [Surface] embodme ERAE II - Unreleased

[FranklyFlawless]

Status updates:

• [Guitar] Artiphon Chorda - Preorder to Released
• [Oblique] SOMA Laboratory TERRA - Preorder to Released