VST GUI Rant

[ouroboros]

it always amazes me how many people live in a world quite removed from reality. what makes say a butcher with no idea how interface contracts are conducted who happens to 'own' a stolen copy of photoshop believe that he can create something thats superior to the work of professionals with years of experience. theres are however, obviously good and bad designers, as in every field.

I think you owe me an apology, not only for insinuating that I don't know what I'm talking about, but for going so far as to raise the notion of using a stolen copy of Photoshop!!!

To be precise, my copy of Photoshop is Photoshop 5.0 LE. I most certainly did pay for it, and it is not stolen or cracked in any way. I also own a copy of Photoshop Elements 2.0. Let me state for the record, that I do not use any stolen version of Photoshop whatsoever. Before you try to nag me for not owning the latest full version of Photoshop, let me remind you that owning the latest full version of Photoshop (or any other particular program) is not a prerequisite for being able to properly edit graphics.

There was absolutely no reason to mention the hypothetical example of a butcher (a word with definite negative connotations of its own, often used to refer to someone who is clumsy or sloppy in the execution of their work) who uses a stolen copy of Photoshop, unless you were trying to smear my reputation by implied association. I don't appreciate that, and I expect better from you in the future.

if i wanted an extension on my house i would ask a builder and i wouldnt assume that 'i could do it better'

incredible.

If you had house building skills of your own, and then saw the finished work of some sloppy "professional builders"--you might well have a different opinion!


later,
McLilith

A fine example of disagreement, clarity and courtesy. A post that is both dignified while arguing a point.

edit:
just in case the tone was unlcear, I mean this sincerely.

[McLilith]

And don't worry about J&H, as rude as he might appear, he's a sharp guy with lots of opinions backed up by experience and research

If he were really so sharp, his demeanor wouldn't need to be quite so acerbic.

take care,
McLilith

[Bitstreem]

I believe there are good arguments on both sides of the fence here (both from user and developer), and I don't really have anything meaningful to add to the discussion, however this

I think that's the next big step, vector based GUIs that are totally resizable. The whole hardware emulation style just doesn't stack up to that kind of flexibility. (in my opinion anyways)

is a bloody great idea that I'd LOVE to see implemented!* Quickly now, Glurgle, patent it before I do!

Cheers,

Arne S.

* It might already be somewhere, but I haven't seen it...

[Hunter]

I don't have time at the moment, to compile a list of the better looking GUIs, but I might do that later, if there's interest.

I always find opinions on GUIs interesting, and it was refreshing for a poster to come up with genuine examples for us to assess.. Thanks for this post McLilith

I think your GUIs are awesome Ian, they really match the far out character of your synths

Have to admit whilst I like clean, functional GUI, I do like the wacky ohm force ones for example, and the Krakli ones, they add some character to already characterful plugins.

However I think Spaceman is the best GUI designer out there...

[NAD]

My absolute favorite GUI:

[amoebe]

My absolute favorite GUI:

Nah, the lighting and drop shadow on the knobs is wrong

[McLilith]

Um, I'm a graphic design professional, and I agree with McLilith on this one - function should define form in this case. Many GUI designers seem to get far too wrapped up in the bells and whistles - usability should always be the prime concern.

That's really fine.
And something is true. But merely to rant is not the key.

BTW: Can you explain me for instance (as a top greaphics designer), where the functionality (even the expedience), for instance, of your website is ?

So much to "bells and whistles"...

.

You really shouldn't have brought up the web site issue. I just found yours:

http://devilswhisper.com/

It's really not very impressive. There are multiple mistakes in spelling and grammar, and the basic layout of the text is sloppy and amateurish.

But wait, you didn't claim to be an expert web site designer, did you? No, your specialty is plugin development, isn't it? Maybe we should concentrate on that plugin you show a screen shot of, on your one-page web site.

As for that plugin, I notice that it uses a sheet of glare on its window areas, that partially obscures the fonts and graphics information underneath. Do you really think that's a smart design decision?

I also notice that three of the controls use low-contrast gray-on-gray lettering. Can you honestly say that you don't think a little more contrast on these particular legends would make things easier for the eye to read?

You also have used a horizontal stripe background, which you modulate, to delineate the edge of your control panel, separating it from your faux rack ears. As I've said earlier, the horizontal stripes can clash with fonts. Take a look at the word "FREEFORMER" in the bottom third of your GUI. That word would look sharper without the "Moire effect" caused by the clash with the stripped background.

I also notice that you have some "oprhaned" graphical elements that extend past the central "chassis area" and overlap onto the faux rack ear region. You seem to want to emulate the hardware look, because of the faux rack ears and the faux LCD/VFD displays, but normal hardware doesn't have controls that extend beyond the width of the chassis, into the rack ears. I admit that this isn't a question of legibility, but a question of artistic sensibility. Are you sure that you want some of your controls to protrude into the extreme left and right areas of your GUI, which most people would normally reserve strictly for the faux rack ears?

There are also those "in" and "out" legends that extend onto the rack ears, which should be considered. I do not consider that as disturbing as having actual controls on the rack ears, because while a hardware box might be created with lettering on the rack ear area, it almost certainly won't have controls that extend onto the rack ears, because the backside of the control would be banging into the rack rails behind the rack ears, preventing you from inserting your device into an actual rack. So while yes, the lettering could extend onto the rack ears, on a real hardware device, you should be asking yourself if you really like the aesthetics of having them sticking out like that. Like I said, this is more a matter of style and personal taste, and has nothing to do with legibility (the main thrust of my recent comments.) I just thought I should mention it since we are on the subject of your GUI building skills.

One more style issue is the highlights you applied to your 3D controls. Your round knobs and rectangular buttons have a neutral white highlight on their bottom edges, while your arrows, sliders, and concentric-circle "thingies" (I'm sure you will inform us at to their proper name) have a warm, somewhat colored highlight on their bottom edges. This would be pretty unusual in the real world, and it makes your natural-looking GUI look a little bit unnatural.

I'm also curious why there is a green highlight at the bottom of both your SEQUENCER and FREEFORMER panels? One wouldn't expect that to be some source of global environmental illumination, because there would most likely also be a gree highlight on the bottom edge of your top panel as well. If the green highlights are caused by some sort of local source of illumination, what is it?

If you intend for us to believe that the glowing "Vampire 3" logo is is the illumination source for the green highlights, then you have your highlights in the wrong place. The green FREEFORMER highlight should be moved to the left, for the effect to look convincing. Also, you should probably remove the green highlight at the bottom of the SEQUENCER, since we see no evidence of green light spilling across the entire FREEFORMER panel. Are we to assume that someone hasn't mounted the SEQUENCER panel squarely into the rack (wait a minute, what rack?) and that it's lower-right edge protrudes past the top-right edge of the FREEFORMER panel enough to catch a green highlight from the glowing "Vampire 3" logo?

I guess that's enough critique of your plugin's GUI. At least, it has a fairly cool name.

A word of advice: The next time you try to tell a total stranger that they don't know anything about a certain subject, that they must be inept simply because they offer a viewpoint that might challenge your own, and that they should "leave it to the profesionals" (like you?) to do the job--you better get your own house in order first, unless you want to be the one who looks like a total idiot. I don't appreciate the way you've turned this into a personal attack on myself and others, like dystonia. Can you please refrain from this distasteful habit in the future? It truly is "behaviour unbecoming an officer and a gentleman", to borrow a phrase from the military.


take care,
McLilith

[amoebe]

One reason to make the light uneven is because it looks better, the other is because the average GUI isn't 3d looking but only 3d suggesting. And if you want to suggest, you better do it properly.
The blurryness is essential for making different GUI elements, usually created independently, fit in the background. Besides, even a sharp photo usually is much more blurry than the blurriest GUI.

I made them all; sharp and flat GUI's, sharp and 3d, blurry and 3d. Guess what gave me the most positive user feedback...

[McLilith]

One reason to make the light uneven is because it looks better...

That's a matter of opinion that I don't happen to agree with.

...the other is because the average GUI isn't 3d looking but only 3d suggesting. And if you want to suggest, you better do it properly.

So, "doing it properly" includes obscuring the view of legends and other data?

The blurryness is essential for making different GUI elements, usually created independently, fit in the background. Besides, even a sharp photo usually is much more blurry than the blurriest GUI.

I'm not so sure about all that blur being "essential", since I've definitely sharpened some GUIs with no adverse effects whatsoever.

As for the photographic reference. I did make references to photographic imagery in my original post, but that was primarily regarding the prevention or removal of glare--not a comparison of sharpness. Yes, general photography can have a fair amount of blur incorporated into a photo and still look appealing, but I would expect a professional product shot of some electronics equipment to be tack-sharp. (I'm not sure how relevant "typical" photographic sharpness is to good GUI design, therefore I never tried to make any connection of the two ideas in my first post.)

I made them all; sharp and flat GUI's, sharp and 3d, blurry and 3d. Guess what gave me the most positive user feedback...

Come on, don't be such a tease. Just tell us, if it's not too embarrassing.


take care,
McLilith

[McLilith]

My absolute favorite GUI:

I've never used this one, but it does look cute.


McLilith

[jmh]

McLilith sadly you just shot yourself in the foot. Good analysis on J&H's draft for the GUI though. But that's all it is. Hadn't I been a lazy git, it would feature my GUI but that's another story.

And J&H had some validity in his question. Whereas yours go more towards a rant, even when disregarding the fact you're shredding a first draft for the GUI.

Furthermore, he didn't claim being a professional, especially not in user interface / interactivity or graphic design.

I'm somewhat reluctant to go this way, but since you're now indicating you yourself are intimate with the subject... let's see some of your work?

Better yet. Do a lot of interested parties a favor and make a draft for Devilswhisper GUI That would at least to a degree 'put your money where your mouth is'. (And this isn't meant in an offending way, just to give some validity to your post)

Funny thing is that you and Dystonia are turning this personal, not J&H. His questions were rather valid, and he kept most of the things on a general level. And he did try to make it clear that he's asking for examples instead of generalisations. People saying "I'm a graphic designer" don't really work as an answer to that. He also raised a number of points relating to UI design, not just the graphics side of things. He even went on to name a number of things relating to UI/GUI design that are commonly known as problems, I don't really see these issues being discussed.

Furthermore, he doesn't seem to be against you or Dystonia, whereas you both seem to think that way. Ok, there are remarks creeping into the discussion, but that's what happens when neither party even tries to follow each other...

What's my part in this then... it's a good discussion but if it's going into this, people attacking each other as soon as their views are questioned instead of continuing the discussion that way, it's all lost.

So please, try to see it that way. If your views and opinions are questioned or asked for clarification, that's not a personal attack against you. Snide remarks aside of course once someone begins that game

Regards,

JMH

[McLilith]

However I think Spaceman is the best GUI designer out there...

I've not used those plugins, but assuming they only have one control, these GUIs suit me just fine. They are crisp and well defined, and they certainly have character.


McLilith

[jmh]

A fine example of disagreement, clarity and courtesy. A post that is both dignified while arguing a point.

edit:
just in case the tone was unlcear, I mean this sincerely.

It could as well be read as overreaction to a generalisation which doesn't necessarily include McLilith, excludes his situation regarding his talent and software ownership... and the original comment can easily be read as a reaction to seeing a lot of people talking about graphics and user interface design with very little or no knowledge in the subject and nothing to convince the readers otherwise, such as examples of their own work and so on...

To a degree, I agree with Harper. Plenty of people nowadays act as if they were really familiar with the subject, plenty of people call themselves graphic designers. Having opinions from the end user side is fine and ok, but why does everybody feel the need to call themselves a graphic designer on KVR nowadays

Well, that's how I read it. Harper made a sweeping generalisation that could but doesn't seem to target McLilith and he responded in a courteous yet overreacting manner...

Regards,

JMH

[spaceman]

However I think Spaceman is the best GUI designer out there...

I've not used those plugins, but assuming they only have one control, these GUIs suit me just fine. They are crisp and well defined, and they certainly have character.


McLilith

not as good as my phazer though

[jmh]

Spaceman Quit following me! Not only do you post in these threads I'm flooding, but now you post a screenshot of a GUI you designed, with that red devilish face I just saw in that "Undress Britney" Flash thing!!! And I'm sure that butt is in one of those sites that's open in another tab in my browser!!!

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

Scared,

JMH