Why did mobile music production never take off?

[BONES]

When iOS production became a thing a decade ago, it seemed such a promising direction, with a vibrant producer scene, loads of new apps, mobile DAWs and effects. But to me, it seems like, it never really got out its niche. And I' wondering why? Is it because Android never really caught up?
Are iOS/iPadOs devices not powerful enough to produce full tracks?

This is a very strange string of questions and postulations, clearly from someone whose never stuck his head over Apple's walled garden to see what's out there.

I've been doing "mobile music" for almost 40 years. If you're a gigging musician, it's what you do. I started off with a van full of hardware, which gradually got smaller and smaller over the years. Then, for a couple of years, we carted a desktop computer and CRT monitor to gigs. In 2006 I bought my first laptop, the first ever Dell XPS model, and that's when "mobile" meant I could carry my whole set-up to a gig on the bus. I've continued to refine it over the years, to the point my entire set-up fits into my carry-on luggage.

As of several weeks ago, we're doing it on a PC the size of an iPad Mini, that runs a full version of Windows 11. It allows us to use all the same tools we've been using for years/decades, without compromise. It probably runs better than any set-up I've had previously, yet I can fit it into a coat pocket.

OTOH, an iPad doesn't run any of the software we've been using for years, so it's of absolutely no use to us at all. We'd be buying into a whole new ecosystem, which would cost us money and involve hundreds of hours of extra work for no benefit.

Also, making music on a phone can be fun.

So can beating up your girlfriend but you don't do it, do you?

Yes, you can easily make full tracks on a phone. Yes, you can even master and release a whole album from your phone.

So what? I could do it all on hardware, too, but there is no reason in the world why I'd want to.

Part of the reason for the lower popularity is displayed in this thread: bias against.

No, there are good and valid reasons:

1. Connectivity. How many devices can you plug into a phone?

2. Features. Can a DAW that runs on your phone offer anywhere near all the features of the DAW you're running on your big computer? No, they can't. In fact, they are mostly just toys to help us waste away the idle hours in our pointless lives.

3. Ease of use. There is nowhere near enough screen real estate to facilitate good workflows, especially for apps designed for touch.

Ultimately, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.

Who sez?
I know lots of people who mix & master entire albums while walking down the street, grabbing a burger & beer, and taking a piss.

Taking the piss, more like.

... since getting a new computer in 2021 I have barely used my iPads for music aside from sampling things with my phone sometimes .

I don't understand why you'd use an iPad for anything. I've had a handful of tablets over the years, from a Blackberry Playbook to a couple of different Windows tablets and, honestly, they were a complete waste of money. I got them because they seemed really cool but when it came to actually getting stuff done, they weren't much chop. I could run 3DS Max on one of them, but not very well, even hooked up to a monitor, keyboard and mouse. All of those devices ended up sitting on the far end of the sofa after a few months. They just weren't useful for anything. Now that phones have such huge screens, they make even less sense than ever.

It's only now that you can get things like Lenovo's Legion Go or Asus's ROG Ally that tablet sized computers are finally coming into their own - no nonsense, no compromise desktop replacements that fit in your coat pocket.

I’d like to see someone holding their tower pc make music on the crowded bus, train, or a cafe for hours.

And I'd like to see someone get up on stage with just their phone and put on a 90 minute performance. But the thing is, a full-size tower is not the only alternative, there are plenty of solutions that allow you to work on your music on the bus, to do top quality recording and production work in a studio and do your 90 minute live set. Only our first two albums were done on a desktop computer, everything since has been done, from start to finish, on a laptop.

Also, pro tip: there’s such a thing as a stand for your phone or iPad so you don’t have to hold it if that’s such a concern to someone.

That's gonna make it a lot less portable. I got one for my Legion Go but the portability factor has relegated it to the desktop. Luckily the Go has a kick-stand.

I do notice a lot of ignorant people simply dismissing mobile devices as being useful

Right, because none of us have ever actually owned mobile devices, so we can't possibly know what we're talking about.

not knowing just how useful they can be - even as extensions and enhancements to the desk-bound studio, if replacement or substitution isn’t a thing for someone.

Well, this is the low hanging fruit, so let me point out that all but a very few mobile devices run a different OS to any desktop computer, so the interoperability simply isn't there. e.g. There is no way I could open a Studio One project on any phone or iPad, is there? So anything I might want to work on, would have to basically be re-recreated on the other device, which is hardly useful, is it?

You know, reading your posts here makes me wonder if you even make music. Seriously, the limitations and pitfalls of using a mobile for music production are so obvious, it's hard to believe anyone even needs to explain them to you.

[jules99]

Never change, Bones. So little substance, so much emotion, such an egotistical view of the world - the music form car accident, you can't look away from.

[BONES]

All substance, no emotion. OTOH, from you, nothing at all. I've laid it all out, given you plenty of detail and this is all you got in return. Pathetic. What a waste of space.

[jamcat]

[Paree]

There are apps that are more successful than others for making use of touch and the limited screen real estate. I don't have the patience or inclination for exclusive music making on the ipad but I do really enjoy several apps and integrate them into my main rigs. Some of the midi generation apps in particular are inspirational and fun. I send their output to my various gear over blue tooth using low latency CME midi devices.

That's where I'm at as well, iPad can be an incredible add on to your existing setup at a relatively cheap price.

But if you had to, i guess you can make music on anything, even android phone, but it is not inspiring, atleast for me.

I do agree that a laptop is the best "mobile" device to make music, especially since modern laptops have 8+ hours of battery life.

And speaking of making music on a crowded bus or train, i don't think that's the best place to make music but if you get inspired to make music while you can barely stand without someone pushing you, good for you ig.


The only reason why someone would completely make music on ios/android is either they don't like the traditional workflow, which is niche like the original post said or it's the only device they have, then do whatever you can with it.

I do like my ipad, i primarily feel like groovebox apps work great with ipad but a full fledged DAW (even GarageBand multitrack) feels like a chore. So for me, playing with it and making loops and grooves is great but editing is still a frustrating experience.

[vitocorleone123]

When iOS production became a thing a decade ago, it seemed such a promising direction, with a vibrant producer scene, loads of new apps, mobile DAWs and effects. But to me, it seems like, it never really got out its niche. And I' wondering why? Is it because Android never really caught up?
Are iOS/iPadOs devices not powerful enough to produce full tracks?

This is a very strange string of questions and postulations, clearly from someone whose never stuck his head over Apple's walled garden to see what's out there.

I've been doing "mobile music" for almost 40 years. If you're a gigging musician, it's what you do. I started off with a van full of hardware, which gradually got smaller and smaller over the years. Then, for a couple of years, we carted a desktop computer and CRT monitor to gigs. In 2006 I bought my first laptop, the first ever Dell XPS model, and that's when "mobile" meant I could carry my whole set-up to a gig on the bus. I've continued to refine it over the years, to the point my entire set-up fits into my carry-on luggage.

As of several weeks ago, we're doing it on a PC the size of an iPad Mini, that runs a full version of Windows 11. It allows us to use all the same tools we've been using for years/decades, without compromise. It probably runs better than any set-up I've had previously, yet I can fit it into a coat pocket.

OTOH, an iPad doesn't run any of the software we've been using for years, so it's of absolutely no use to us at all. We'd be buying into a whole new ecosystem, which would cost us money and involve hundreds of hours of extra work for no benefit.

Also, making music on a phone can be fun.

So can beating up your girlfriend but you don't do it, do you?

Yes, you can easily make full tracks on a phone. Yes, you can even master and release a whole album from your phone.

So what? I could do it all on hardware, too, but there is no reason in the world why I'd want to.

Part of the reason for the lower popularity is displayed in this thread: bias against.

No, there are good and valid reasons:

1. Connectivity. How many devices can you plug into a phone?

2. Features. Can a DAW that runs on your phone offer anywhere near all the features of the DAW you're running on your big computer? No, they can't. In fact, they are mostly just toys to help us waste away the idle hours in our pointless lives.

3. Ease of use. There is nowhere near enough screen real estate to facilitate good workflows, especially for apps designed for touch.

Ultimately, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.

Who sez?
I know lots of people who mix & master entire albums while walking down the street, grabbing a burger & beer, and taking a piss.

Taking the piss, more like.

... since getting a new computer in 2021 I have barely used my iPads for music aside from sampling things with my phone sometimes .

I don't understand why you'd use an iPad for anything. I've had a handful of tablets over the years, from a Blackberry Playbook to a couple of different Windows tablets and, honestly, they were a complete waste of money. I got them because they seemed really cool but when it came to actually getting stuff done, they weren't much chop. I could run 3DS Max on one of them, but not very well, even hooked up to a monitor, keyboard and mouse. All of those devices ended up sitting on the far end of the sofa after a few months. They just weren't useful for anything. Now that phones have such huge screens, they make even less sense than ever.

It's only now that you can get things like Lenovo's Legion Go or Asus's ROG Ally that tablet sized computers are finally coming into their own - no nonsense, no compromise desktop replacements that fit in your coat pocket.

I’d like to see someone holding their tower pc make music on the crowded bus, train, or a cafe for hours.

And I'd like to see someone get up on stage with just their phone and put on a 90 minute performance. But the thing is, a full-size tower is not the only alternative, there are plenty of solutions that allow you to work on your music on the bus, to do top quality recording and production work in a studio and do your 90 minute live set. Only our first two albums were done on a desktop computer, everything since has been done, from start to finish, on a laptop.

Also, pro tip: there’s such a thing as a stand for your phone or iPad so you don’t have to hold it if that’s such a concern to someone.

That's gonna make it a lot less portable. I got one for my Legion Go but the portability factor has relegated it to the desktop. Luckily the Go has a kick-stand.

I do notice a lot of ignorant people simply dismissing mobile devices as being useful

Right, because none of us have ever actually owned mobile devices, so we can't possibly know what we're talking about.

not knowing just how useful they can be - even as extensions and enhancements to the desk-bound studio, if replacement or substitution isn’t a thing for someone.

Well, this is the low hanging fruit, so let me point out that all but a very few mobile devices run a different OS to any desktop computer, so the interoperability simply isn't there. e.g. There is no way I could open a Studio One project on any phone or iPad, is there? So anything I might want to work on, would have to basically be re-recreated on the other device, which is hardly useful, is it?

You know, reading your posts here makes me wonder if you even make music. Seriously, the limitations and pitfalls of using a mobile for music production are so obvious, it's hard to believe anyone even needs to explain them to you.

You make me laugh with your joke posts. I’m glad no one takes you seriously. Keep up the humor!

I love the part where you were using mobile phones 40 years ago to make music. Classic.

[BONES]

Brilliant, insightful riposte. Thank you for your positive contribution to this thread, it is so valuable in moving the discussion forward, you cretin.

[jamcat]

I love the part where you were using mobile phones 40 years ago to make music. Classic.

Don't laugh. This was BONES' car phone mobile studio DAW in the '80s.

[BONES]

He never mentioned f**king phones, he just said "mobile" and I never think to look at which forum a post in the "Recent Posts" list is from. I haven't called a phone a "mobile" in 20 years.

[tkdalien]

I wouldn't say it didn't take off. It has to a large extent and there a vast amount of users (mostly amateur, but also a niche of professionals). I'm not exactly sure about Android, but I know that iOs and iPadOS technology for music production has improved significantly, mostly in the last few years especially with the advent of Auv3 plugins, so in that regard having tested it myself you can definitely make high quality music.

It's important to note that music production has various sectors and related avenues. Meaning there are vocalists, beatmakers, melody makers, engineers, DJ's, etc. Take a vocalist for example. Do they need a laptop? No because they can get the same high quality recording takes with a top tier interface and microphone connected to an iPad. And there is enough plugins on iOS now for all kinds of mixing and mastering needs if they don't have an engineer.

How about a DJ? I've been to countless parties where the DJ's are using iPads. Considering they are using apps for simple DJing solutions, they don't "need" a laptop.

But let's take a look at beatmakers and audio engineers like myself for example. My main studio runs on a PC laptop and for rare occasions I have an M1 iPad with Logic. Right now I still EASILY prefer working on my studio desk with laptop, mouse, keyboard, monitor and all my gadgets. Since beatmaking and engineering takes time and not as simple, this is a much more comfortable setup for me.

The issue is that touching the screen on the iPad and fine-tuning parameters feels like a hassle and there's a lot of fine-tuning in my process. And when you connect a bluetooth keyboard mouse to the iPad, the movement is still clunky. So you must understand it comes down to a case by case basis. Android can be great for vocalists and DJ's, iOs and iPad can do that and more, so the ability is there. And if you're a producer or engineer and like the iPad workflow, more power to you.

[jamcat]

He never mentioned f**king phones, he just said "mobile" and I never think to look at which forum a post in the "Recent Posts" list is from. I haven't called a phone a "mobile" in 20 years.

I was just busting your balls. I would definitely consider a PortaStudio or Zoom to be a mobile device. Those were what most people were using before DAWs in the ‘80s and ‘90s. Mobile recording is not a new concept. The Rolling Stones had a mobile studio in a truck since the late ‘60s. Most of Led Zeppelin’s albums were recorded in it. Deep Purple’s Smoke On The Water, too.

[BONES]

I once got a guy in Brisbane to dub some tapes for me (reel-to-reel mixdowns) and his studio was in a caravan in his front yard. He used to tow it around to record live shows.

[jens]

hint@Bones: "mobile" = IOS&Android

(Disclaimer/precaution: this is a definition by mere convention so there is nothing to discuss about it - it could be any other word. But it's this one and everyone besides you understands it. Discussing it (which you will nigh doubtlessly do), is as pointless as discussing why a chair is a chair and a table a table and not the other way around)

[BONES]

Not necessarily. I still have a functioning Windows phone with some pathetic version of Fruityloops installed on it. (The best weather app ever is only on WinPhone and it still works.) Windows 11 is also a viable mobile OS, as evidenced by my current workstation PC and it's 8" form factor. The Asus one is even smaller, with just a 7" screen, but you can't detach the game controllers.

[jamcat]

The best weather app ever is only on WinPhone and it still works.

Can you set your own weather in it?