KVR Audio

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:31 am

I have to say I had been learning a Linux for over a year. Now I got proficient enough to use it smoothly. You might think it does look so bad when comparing to windows. But you should know I have been using various versions of windows for how many years? Over 10 years worth of experience. If I had such the same time with a Linux (or any other thing) it would be a cake now.

I know one person very new to a computers. She has a notebook with winxp preinstalled and certainly she isn't stupid. But..., but she is absolutely clueless how use the winxp, the same way when I showed her a Gnome desktop. She just got enough skills to use a word barely lately. To be able to use something there is a learning curve obviously.

Linux is a hard? So is playing a guitar, a keys, learning all the chords and scales, etc. Should we dump things only for such a reason something can be not easy? I would say a no.

jorgen · Post by **jorgen** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:42 am

linux looks both good and bad, depends on what apps, desktop and themes you use. I use dropline gnome with slackware and its eye candy out of the box

jorgen

Lunch Money · Post by **Lunch Money** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:21 pm

peejunk wrote:
Lunch Money wrote:Who the fcuk WANTS to play with the kernel. Go ahead and wank away with all that technical BS all you want. I'll be busy making music.
The thing is that this kind of flexibility gives you, the user, benefits through third party developers that are willing to cater for the needs of such an insignificant piece of user base that audio users are to Microsoft. As well as there is such a groupation that is insignificant to Apple.

My point is that... who cares about flexibility that won't or shouldn't get used? A developer of a commercial software ISN'T going to branch out the code base all that far, and the coding tools are ultimately still the same for end-user software: C++ or whatever flavour of language the developer prefers.

As a user who wants to buy a sequencer, I really don't give a rat's ass if the developers have the 'flexibility' to modify a kernel or produce different versions for different users (which would be a mistake anyhow). I just want a software that runs, and I want it to run with minimum of hassle.

Give me a Linux distro with no hassle and no recompiling (or make it exceedingly transparent) and then Tracktion or eXT 2.0, and I'll consider switching over. I don't have anything against Linux at all, and I don't care to support MS. Linux simply isn't doing the job right now, whether it'll be capable in the future or not.

Greg

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:36 pm

I really don't think there is much of a difference. The fact that we're using audio-apps on windows without too much trouble is a small miracle what with all the bad drivers and PCI-latecy issues and all.
Is there really that much of a difference between tuning your kernel to make it pre-emptable or switching off windows-services and messing around with IRQs?
In both cases there are extensive tutorials, if you feel like doing it- and it isn't really necessary, even.
Just RTFM, I guess- I b0rked my windows install on more than one occasion.

Right now, there is no real need anymore for windows for everyday desktop use[1] for example. I've been testing the latest Ubuntu live-cd, and yes, it did work out of the box. No hassle on my shuttle and no hassle on the machine that's now my server (which is a dodgy all-in-one mainboard affair with a Duron on top). NIC, video, auto-mounting of CDs, no problems.

Groet, Erik

[1] the only reason I keep on using it on is probably because I'm Dutch- I paid for it, so I'm going to use it, too.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:25 pm

unic wrote:
The release versions, buggy as people claim them to be, are VASTLY superior in release quality than any Linux distro has ever been.
why are then distros labeled "enterprise linux" in existance at all? certified for oracle, maya, xsi etc ...

and why disney and practically all major houses run linux for production.

makes me wonder...

www.beowulf.org - anybody up to make a clustered vst powerhouse?

these are tightly controlled distros of VERY specific content. If MS tried to package it this way everyone would scream "MS IS TRYING TO FORCE ME TO USE A CERTAIN CONFIGURATION OMG BURN THEM DOWN!!!"

Hypertone · Post by **Hypertone** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:36 pm

Imagine if Microsoft came as 4 gig installation with 6 email clients, 5 web browsers and 4 window managers. Everyone would be screaming BLOATWARE!!

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:05 pm

Again, I want to point out that I like Linux and use Gentoo X64 distro. I even have an IBM AIX configuration running as well as an old Berkley shell on an NCR microchannel box. I have no issues with what Linux/Unix are.

I just find the propogation of the "Linux is good because MS is bad" argument to be misguided at best and totally ignorant most of time.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:09 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:
unic wrote:
The release versions, buggy as people claim them to be, are VASTLY superior in release quality than any Linux distro has ever been.
why are then distros labeled "enterprise linux" in existance at all? certified for oracle, maya, xsi etc ...

and why disney and practically all major houses run linux for production.

makes me wonder...

www.beowulf.org - anybody up to make a clustered vst powerhouse?
these are tightly controlled distros of VERY specific content. If MS tried to package it this way everyone would scream "MS IS TRYING TO FORCE ME TO USE A CERTAIN CONFIGURATION OMG BURN THEM DOWN!!!"

Why you are constantly calling people an ignorants and why you are yelling?

You see - microsoft for for some reasons is not satisfying everyone. And yes microsoft is forcing you to many things already. And given latest developments ("Palladium", "HDVideo encryption things") there will be them more, not less.

You might ask to what you're forced to? Just read the microsoft's EULA and you see you're just an mere income provider and you have not really any rights to "a product" you supposedly bought.

You know what is a sweetest BGates's dream? To actually rent you a "software". Let use his own words: "There's nobody getting rich (by) writing software".

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:26 pm

Once linux is stable & fairly easy to tweak - cool.
I've considered messing about with an old p.c & setting it up for linux audio, did some research online & then went to see a mate of mine who works for a small software firm.
He put me off the idea.
I can tweak windows a bit & have it running nice & stable now, after mucho research & some advice from a guy I trust I realise that I couldn't say the same for linus - it would be a learning curve setting up & then maintaining it, if I had a shit load of spare time i'd do it just for the crack basically, but like others here have said i'd rather use said time actually making music.
But props to the guys who are working shit out on linux - I hope things keep progressing to the point where one truly could actually just install the os, install drivers & proggies & start making music with no (or at least minimal) worries & uber-tweaking.

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:29 pm

Well, lets just leave it at that I find the entire anti-billgates dogma to be completely collegiate thinking and unfounded. I have yet to find a rational point against MS. You haven't produced one point so far. It's all fluff. You are just saying that you like to tweak the kernel. Everything else is propoganda based. I especially find it funny that you think there is something wrong with MS, or any other company for that matter, trying to make money. MS products are in no way over-priced. And you have FREE alternatives that you are FREE to use.

I even find it funny that you quote Disney using Linux. If there is a company on this planet, outside of the oil industry, that deserves to be reviled as pure evil, it is Disney. Hurray for them choosing Linux. And, I would also like to see your qualified list of "Most Major Houses" (houses of what?) that use Linux. I install software in banks and hospitals all over the US and a little in Europe. Have for over 20 years. I have yet to be in a business that uses Linux for anything other than maybe a PIX firewall here and there(not really Linux). A few use Unix of one flavor or another. A few more have AIX. The funny part of that is almost without fail those Unix boxes are running another OS shell on top so that no one has to use the Unix OS.

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:35 pm

Hypertone wrote:Imagine if Microsoft came as 4 gig installation with 6 email clients, 5 web browsers and 4 window managers. Everyone would be screaming BLOATWARE!!

that is only because if MS did it, it would be set up to be as difficult as possible for basic users to get rid of any of them. They would all be interdependent, with automatic "services" that would re-start themselves at next re-boot without some serious intervention of the kind that new users rarely have the know how to accomplish. And it would all be delivered for the 'bargain' price of about 2400 dollars (rather than the 60 bucks or so that a top of the line SuSe Linux package will set you back) plus a EULA that if you actually read it would make you feel downright paranoid.
I am not one of those anti microsoft people. I fully recognize what Gates has done, and i respect his right to earn more money than anyone could ever possibly need and to do it by totally abusing US patent law. But there are just so many stupid myths out there about Linux and others; and those myths are more often than not started by and at the behest of, Microsoft and the other mega corporations that belong to a collaborative group who's sole mission is to control what we can run on our computers.
MS and ORacle, and other software giants are the main force behind the push for hardware to only run "certified" ( ie: facist-ware - Adobe, MS, etc - companies that can afford to pay the hundred million or so dollars to get their products 'certified') software ---- IN OTHER WORDS, "kill open source before the tools of art, culture, knowledge, and information get into the hands of the unwashed masses".

hmmm..... i think i may have digressed a little bit

sorry.

4damind · Post by **4damind** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:52 pm

Mmh, Korgs Oasis is using a modified linux... There is much potential with Linux, today mostly in embedded systems and on servers, while its high configurable and easy modifiable (while the sources are open for everybody).

Can be, 10 years later, that we have a special music distribution running out of the box with a professional productionsystem like cubase or logic. May be... But today we are far away from this.

I'am using linux since 6 years on my desktop. Mostly Gnome, since some weeks KDE. But I gave up to make thinks working for music-making. Under Windows all works fine, mostly out of the box. Its easier to me and I think most others, to make a dual-boot to windows and work there.

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:56 pm

SJ_Digriz wrote:Well, lets just leave it at that I find the entire anti-billgates dogma to be completely collegiate thinking and unfounded. I have yet to find a rational point against MS. You haven't produced one point so far. It's all fluff. You are just saying that you like to tweak the kernel. Everything else is propoganda based. I especially find it funny that you think there is something wrong with MS, or any other company for that matter, trying to make money. MS products are in no way over-priced. And you have FREE alternatives that you are FREE to use.

I even find it funny that you quote Disney using Linux. If there is a company on this planet, outside of the oil industry, that deserves to be reviled as pure evil, it is Disney. Hurray for them choosing Linux. And, I would also like to see your qualified list of "Most Major Houses" (houses of what?) that use Linux. I install software in banks and hospitals all over the US and a little in Europe. Have for over 20 years. I have yet to be in a business that uses Linux for anything other than maybe a PIX firewall here and there(not really Linux). A few use Unix of one flavor or another. A few more have AIX. The funny part of that is almost without fail those Unix boxes are running another OS shell on top so that no one has to use the Unix OS.

Corporate entities are just like a political ones. Full of crap and here are many things with microsoft what are atleast questionable. Unices predates any of BGates's things by far and any point of time technically ms's oses were inferior when compared to a competition. If you are saying otherwise then you have a very low standards indeed. I don't how anyone could prefer an Amiga's Workbench against Win3.x for example. Of course ms prevailed but it wasn't on technical merits alone.

Do know how superior was an Digital's Alpha at the same time compared to Intel's best Pentium. It wasn't even funny and microsoft's success lies in similiar principlies. Of course for you all of this is an alright thing, fair enough.

Someone here at KVR said one wise sentence:
"If you are dancing with devil, you had to pay a fiddler". Good luck then.

jens · Post by **jens** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:02 pm

BONES wrote: They are quite up-front about it being based around Rosegarden, its stated right under the "Studio To Go" title on the cover.

yeah - and it might have something to do with the fact that they developed it...

(edit: hasd to fix the quotation)

Z3R0T0N1N · Post by **Z3R0T0N1N** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:02 pm

MS (and others, like Adobe) file up to 100 or more patents in a single day, for simple, basic operations that under patent law should not be patentable - but the sheer volume swamps the officers and many get though. And the republican government in the US only make it easier and easier for this to go on.
Do you want to support that kind of immoral behaviour?
If you have to, for practicallity's sake, or for work, that is fine. But to not at least give other options a chance for non-essential stuff, and even for essential stuff is supporting a non-sustainable and ultimately destructive system.
thank you and good night

Studio....to go Linux OS sequencer