Yeah - that's the conclusion I came to also. Weird effect though.sirocco wrote:its from remvoing certian musical frequencies with noise reduction tools.
Remastering/restoration showdown!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
patrick 9 - Your second try restored the higher details, but it's really grainy! Also, I think you added some kind of sparkle enhancer that gave it weird artifacts in the higher frequencies.
sleazy_pancake emailed me his versions because he's having problems with his hosting. I'm hosting it for him so you guys can hear his versions. I think they're really good! His Kujaku clip just took over the best version spot from stian I think. It puts back the bottom/body that was missing from stian's. His Shinsei clip is a bit shrill, but still very good. stian's Shinsei clip is still the best so far, but it suffers from missing bottom/body like his Kujaku clip.
Here are sleazy_pancake's versions:
Kujaku
http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality ... ancake.mp3
Shinsei
http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality ... ancake.mp3
Hey, I have an idea, what if once everyone gets their versions in, I turn this thread into a poll, and we can all vote on entries. It won't be a real showdown without a winner, right? Good idea?
I just realized that maybe I should give a little background on these clips you guys have been working on.
The Kujaku clip is from a Japanese animation soundtrack. It was an OAV (Original Animation Video--meaning it's straight to video format in Japan) called Kujaku Oh (Peacock King), released in 1987. It's a horror/action/thriller about demons and possessions in a sub-sect of the Tibetan religion. They've made other animations and a feature film of it later on. The original story was in manga (comic book) format. The theme explains the tibetan style percussion you hear, and the haunting melodies for the strings portrays the supernatural elements very well.
The Shinsei clip is a mystery. I got it back in the late 80's from a crappy cassette off a friend. There was no label, so I have no idea where it's from, but based on my limited Japanese language skill, I'm guessing it's also from a Japanese animation soundtrack. The song might not even be called Shinsei Densetsu (which I think translates to Legend of the Warrior), I titled it that because there's a verse in the lyrics that sings it. I like this track because I think the melody is quite nice. In fact the best parts of the song are not on the clip I provided. If you guys want to hear both tracks in their full versions, I could post them.
sleazy_pancake emailed me his versions because he's having problems with his hosting. I'm hosting it for him so you guys can hear his versions. I think they're really good! His Kujaku clip just took over the best version spot from stian I think. It puts back the bottom/body that was missing from stian's. His Shinsei clip is a bit shrill, but still very good. stian's Shinsei clip is still the best so far, but it suffers from missing bottom/body like his Kujaku clip.
Here are sleazy_pancake's versions:
Kujaku
http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality ... ancake.mp3
Shinsei
http://www.ethereality.info/ethereality ... ancake.mp3
Hey, I have an idea, what if once everyone gets their versions in, I turn this thread into a poll, and we can all vote on entries. It won't be a real showdown without a winner, right? Good idea?
I just realized that maybe I should give a little background on these clips you guys have been working on.
The Kujaku clip is from a Japanese animation soundtrack. It was an OAV (Original Animation Video--meaning it's straight to video format in Japan) called Kujaku Oh (Peacock King), released in 1987. It's a horror/action/thriller about demons and possessions in a sub-sect of the Tibetan religion. They've made other animations and a feature film of it later on. The original story was in manga (comic book) format. The theme explains the tibetan style percussion you hear, and the haunting melodies for the strings portrays the supernatural elements very well.
The Shinsei clip is a mystery. I got it back in the late 80's from a crappy cassette off a friend. There was no label, so I have no idea where it's from, but based on my limited Japanese language skill, I'm guessing it's also from a Japanese animation soundtrack. The song might not even be called Shinsei Densetsu (which I think translates to Legend of the Warrior), I titled it that because there's a verse in the lyrics that sings it. I like this track because I think the melody is quite nice. In fact the best parts of the song are not on the clip I provided. If you guys want to hear both tracks in their full versions, I could post them.
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- KVRian
- 901 posts since 1 Dec, 2003
I CRY UNCLE!
I'll have to let my attempt at the Kujaku clip stand as it is. I can't seem to do much more with it, as I have other projects pending. I couldn't make anything out of the Shinsei clip. It would either sound dull, or it would sparkle with MUCH hiss. I could EQ it, but that's about it.
I think a poll would be interesting. All the different speakers, headphones, listening environment acoustics, and most important, the listener's subjective ear! I've had tinnitus since the 80's, so my mixes tend to suffer from scooped mids in order for me to hear the high end.
I'm working on it!
If you post a poll, let me know, because the last two days with a 5 meg .wav file have chewed away 2/3's of my bandwidth. I'll convert to mp3 if needed, unless you have the hosting space to handle all of these.
dramsenik wrote:Lunatique,
I hope you don't mind if i posted your "trash clip" over another forum as i find this interesting...lot's of really differents versions.
I will see if "it takes" over there and will post the results if yes.
Thanks, Lunatique, for a thread that made me learn something!
Phil
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- KVRAF
- 1743 posts since 3 Dec, 2004
Sorry so slow with a response (headcold) I guess it just depends on the cassette tape. (from a math standpoint this is apples and oranges since tape is an analog recording process)Lunatique wrote:birrman - Do you really think that high-quality mp3 isn't sufficient enough for cassette tapes? I know that CDs translate to about 44.1 Khz and 16 bit, but what would cassette tapes translate to?
I am doing a similiar archive/restoration project of my old bands 4-track (cassette) tapes and I have opted to use 24 bit /44.1 for most of it. These were really good recordings on a pretty decent fostex and 16 bit didn't really seem do it justice. (Of course I will mix these down digitally in the end to stereo 16 bit files for CD output).
Granted, some of these 4 track tapes are 30 minutes of the drummer going crazy on 3-4 tracks, those I will prolly convert to 192k mp3.
So to answer your question I guess it just depends. I don't think you can definitively say that all cassette tape translates to a specific bit/sample rate it just depends....
Ok, I'm going to have another go at those 2 when I get home (since the bar has been raised)
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
I always archive stuff with VBR at highest setting (lowest 128, highest 320), so I think I'm in good shape, even for CDs. I honestly can't hear the difference past 192, and sometimes even 128. I probably will never own a super highend audiophile system, so I think my VBR setting will last me a lifetime (but if I ever become filthy rich...).
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- KVRist
- 408 posts since 20 Aug, 2004
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- KVRist
- 408 posts since 20 Aug, 2004
i can definitly hear past 192...under this....the transients become more mild and less aurally excited. for music, specially dance, this totally ruins it for me.Lunatique wrote:I always archive stuff with VBR at highest setting (lowest 128, highest 320), so I think I'm in good shape, even for CDs. I honestly can't hear the difference past 192, and sometimes even 128. I probably will never own a super highend audiophile system, so I think my VBR setting will last me a lifetime (but if I ever become filthy rich...).
on another note.....did this audio kick anyone else's ass (or ears i should say) i was extemely attenuated for 10 minutes after at least
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- KVRian
- 1165 posts since 25 Apr, 2004 from NWUK
You've got good ears, Lunatique. I hear it now but missed it first time round. What system are you monitoring on?Lunatique wrote:patrick 9 - Your second try restored the higher details, but it's really grainy! Also, I think you added some kind of sparkle enhancer that gave it weird artifacts in the higher frequencies.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1644 posts since 18 Mar, 2004 from Lincoln, CA
sirocco - Both of your clips seems to be too bottom heavy, while the overall sound is quite shrill. The Shinsei clip is particularly shrill.
Yeah, these type of audio for restoration are always the worst, because not only do you have to try to remaster away all the unpleasant shrillness, you have to be a victim of it for a prolonged period of time! Why'd you think I started this thread? So I can have all of you share my pain, of course!
Patrick9 - I don't think I have good ears at all. I can hear the differences because I've got everyone's clips in a folder and I just swap between them to compare. I'm actually monitoring these between two different setups. One is a really crappy soundcard built-in on the mobo, and the other is an Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 soundcard. For actual sound output, I have really crappy made-in-China $20 computer speakers, and a pair of Sennheiser HD555. The Seinnheiser is what I use for critical monitoring. This is my temporary setup while I'm in China--all my good equipment are back in California in storage. I plan to get a pair of studio monitors for my setup here soon, because it looks like I might be staying in China for longer than I anticipated. Nothing too fancy, probably an Event TR8 or ESI nEar05.
The one thing I've learned from the 14 years of making music is that as long as you know your setup well, even if it's cheap and crappy, you can still get a good mix. You just have to have good reference material to compare your own music with. I have some CDs that I always use to test equipment with, and those are my defacto standard for recording/mixing/mastering excellence. There are seasoned pro mastering engineers that prefer to use a pair of el cheapo Radio Shack speakers instead of highend studio monitors--because it gives them a much better idea of what the music will sound like on 90% of everyone else's speakers in the real world.
Yeah, these type of audio for restoration are always the worst, because not only do you have to try to remaster away all the unpleasant shrillness, you have to be a victim of it for a prolonged period of time! Why'd you think I started this thread? So I can have all of you share my pain, of course!
Patrick9 - I don't think I have good ears at all. I can hear the differences because I've got everyone's clips in a folder and I just swap between them to compare. I'm actually monitoring these between two different setups. One is a really crappy soundcard built-in on the mobo, and the other is an Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 soundcard. For actual sound output, I have really crappy made-in-China $20 computer speakers, and a pair of Sennheiser HD555. The Seinnheiser is what I use for critical monitoring. This is my temporary setup while I'm in China--all my good equipment are back in California in storage. I plan to get a pair of studio monitors for my setup here soon, because it looks like I might be staying in China for longer than I anticipated. Nothing too fancy, probably an Event TR8 or ESI nEar05.
The one thing I've learned from the 14 years of making music is that as long as you know your setup well, even if it's cheap and crappy, you can still get a good mix. You just have to have good reference material to compare your own music with. I have some CDs that I always use to test equipment with, and those are my defacto standard for recording/mixing/mastering excellence. There are seasoned pro mastering engineers that prefer to use a pair of el cheapo Radio Shack speakers instead of highend studio monitors--because it gives them a much better idea of what the music will sound like on 90% of everyone else's speakers in the real world.