Challenge to VST reverb developers

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Challenge to VST reverb developers 2005-04-08T00:41:52+00:00 Why - when so many reverb plugins are available - do hardware reverbs still sound better? I think i've found out why, which means some plugin developer will get my respect (or money) when they finally nail it ... The whole thing about convolution reverb has proved several things to me: 1 - the best reverbs are predominantly artificial, from high end hardware boxes 2 - samples are not really flexible for real music applications. (I need to tweak everything to match the groove, especially with reverse or inverse sounds) 3 - algorithm VST plugins aren't at the same level as hardware algorithmn reverbs (even hardware from the 1980's sounds better than current plugins) - BUT 4 - convolution reverb can't capture the full effect of the classic hardware reverbs (for example - convolution can't model any pitch modulation that might occur in a hardware reverb tail - should you want that). I just found out recently that some of these hardware reverbs require two stereo impulses to capture what they do. This is because a sound directed to the left input creates one full stereo tail, and a sound directed to the right input creates a different, complimentary, full stereo tail. That means 4 output channels are required, even if they are summed to a stereo pair. This means a stereo mix sent to this reverb will give better stereo imaging than most "stereo" reverbs that simply have two channels of wet processing. I see no reason why a VST plugin reverb cannot nail, if not blow away, the great hardware reverbs from the past. So far this hasn't been done, and i'm wondering if this true stereo processing might an important missing ingredient. I write some code, but not DSP, so my understanding is very limited. But I believe many reverbs are based on the freeverb model of 8 delay lines. Obviously the timing of each delay is a critical part of the sound and, as with real rooms, it's important to avoid nasty sounding nodes that result from too many similar delays reinforcing certain frequencies. (would the use of prime numbers yield the ultimate reverb tail? - I can only speculate). I wondering what would happen if a vst reverb plugin was designed using essentially two stereo algoritmns in one reverb. The delays would have to be carefully selected so they wouldn't clash, and in fact would sound especially lush when used together. The tails created by each side would be tailored so that the tail created by the left side input alone created a full stereo tail, but skewed to the left. The right hand tail would likewise be skewed to the right. The use of modulation in a verb tail is controversial, and frankly I hate the sound. It doesn't occur naturally, but apparantly was used by some hardware makers. As long as it could be turned off, I don't mind it as an option. The new Glaceverb sounds pretty good, providing the modulation is turned off! Although convolution is popular at the moment, it's a clumsy method and I think a new breed of excellent algorithmic reverbs could, and should, leave them for dead. Maybe the the coming Classik reverb is a sign of things to come, but I don't want to deal with a company that uses challenge/response or PACE or anything that will prevent me using my investment down the track if they go bust. The big thing missing in VST reverbs is excellent Inverse or Non-Linear tails. That requires full editability of the timing. I want a big slow reverse reverb tail that peaks right before the snare hit - that sort of thing. The relationship between reverb and groove should be explored more fully - so perhaps reverb parameters could be linked to host tempo in the way that delays are now? Numbers are important - the hardware GUI's, although crude, were often better than software GUI's. Nothing worse than fighting with a mouse to set 100, and all you can get is 99 or 101 ... Sorry to rant, but I have a dream ... greendoor https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=63755

Barf Barf https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19618: KVRAF
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Post by Barf » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:45 pm

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Found this link in another forum:

http://www-ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp ... ation.html

if you want to get the whole technical story

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